Hospital Birth from a Doulas Perspective
This Week I have a special guest and her name is Lisa Marie, and she's gonna talk to us a little bit about hospital birth and expectations for your doula that you're hiring.
All right, Lisa, so I'm just gonna go ahead and let you take it away.
Hello, everybody out there in podcast Land. My name is Lisa Marie Flores and I am in Fresno, California, central Valley. So a lot of people don't know where Fresno is and they always ask me, cause they always think of California. Oh, you're by Hollywood la But I'm between LA and San Francisco.
So I'm like right smack dab in the middle of California where all the agriculture is. , um, Fresno is known for, we actually have our own chili, like the Fresno Chili. Yeah. Wow. So,
and then what is it you do for work?
So I am a birth, a holistic birth postpartum doula. I like to say birth worker, but a lot of people don't understand birth worker.
So I have to say doula. And I am also a GrubHub Uber delivery driver. ,
yeah. Wow. As a lot of us are.
Yeah. Yep. It's, it's, yeah. Have to bring in the income and I prefer to be my own boss, so that's why I do that.
Yep. And in birth work, uh, a lot of times you are your own boss, .
Oh, yeah. You have to be so, oh, yeah.
I, I'm a, a birth and postpartum bula. I also do a placenta encapsulations, which I honor the client's placenta, however they wish. Have that honored. A lot of people like encapsulations, a lot of people choose to bury their placenta, which, and the indigenous culture, cuz I'm very indigenous, you know, they do that.
Some people prefer to have their placenta cooked and made into a luxurious meal, which I can do that too. . Some people don't want to do capsules, so I also do, uh, chocolates. I'm a big chocolate lover. I pick in a chocolate course. So I am very familiar with how to make chocolates from the cacao pod down to
the chocolate itself.
Oh wow. I didn't know that. That's very cool. Yeah. And so what brought you into birth work?
What brought me into birth work? Um, honestly, I have a lot of, uh, fertility reproductive issue. . And so birth work for me had started years ago with my own reproductive journey, but it's only been recently that I've come about and thought, okay, what do I wanna do with that?
And it came to me after sitting with indigenous medicine. I sit with, um, with my shaman quite often. I go down to Riverside and sit with kambo and . And other plant medicines. And it came to me sometime last year in January, February-ish. Um, and it really was heavy on me and I thought, okay, and it had to do with women and children and babies.
And I have a Yi steam person that I go to and she's like, you should be a, a doula. And I was like, that's it. That's, that's what I'm supposed to be doing.
I love it. So what brought you to Yoi Steam? I know maybe not everybody knows what that is. ,
Yoi Steam is awesome. I, you know, I steam at home, I have my own chair and whatnot.
Um, but Yoi steaming is, like I said, I have reproductive issues myself. And so yoi steaming is very good for cleansing and uterus and cleansing reproductive issues. I, you just, you don't cleaning yourself out because, , we had done this for generations. Women, you know, they would gather and together and steam thes together.
And so I, I've done that many times and I enjoy it. That's very beneficial.
That's great. And then, so how was your experience when you first started supporting births? Um,
well, the birth work in itself, You know, for me you need to do a lot of self-healing because there are things that are gonna come up for you in birth work that are gonna be triggers.
And for me, I believe that you should do healing within, before you can help others. I mean, yeah, you can help others without, but you need to do a lot of deep healing. because when those triggers come up, and if you're not familiar with healing yourself and your body, mind, and spirit, you're gonna have all these emotions and not understand why.
And for me, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm very spiritual. Um, I sit with medicines and it's very healing to clear things that are from childhood and not only like childhood, but like past lives that we've brought into this lives that are currently in our. That we have passed on from generations for my ancestors.
And so it's very important that we work on ourselves. So when we're working with these women, we, we can help these women without having our ego in a way.
Exactly. And I think that's a great point that you bring up because I think a lot of times birth workers go into birth work and they think from what they see, it's gonna be like this beautiful thing.
Their client is going to want to, um, kind of have the doula do everything. And it's not, it's not like that. It's, we gotta follow the woman's lead and we have to take our own triggers out of the situation cuz it's not about. , and I think that's important that you touched
on that. It's definitely not about us.
It's definitely about them and their, their journey and birth, because birth in the indigenous culture is a very sacred ceremony. It's a ceremony, and so everybody who's involved in that in the birthing space has an impact on that woman and the baby coming through. because women are busts and the vagina is a portal.
So that portal is opening up and that baby is coming through, passing through the spiritual realm to the physical realm, and it's, it's a very sacred thing. And when you get other people involved in their energies, that all had, how it plays a part in, and the woman absorbs.
Exactly. I know I personally have been in a birth space, and I'm not saying that birth can't be beautiful.
It, it can. It is beautiful. But you know, there's messy things that can happen. There's interventions that can happen, and from what I've experienced, the energy in the room is so important because if you have like this, an anxious anxiety, you're putting that onto, the woman, you're putting that onto the person giving birth.
Yes, definitely. And you know, in my practice I like to cleanse the space. Well, not in a hospital, but in their home. I ask if it's okay to come to their home, to cleanse their home, um, with Sage or Palo Santo or whatever, um, because the baby is going to come back into that home and it needs to be in a safe en environment so that they can thrive.
And your home is a very sacred place. So there, there's energies there, and you don't want a newborn baby to come back into that environment.
Exactly. I think that's beautiful that you do that. I didn't know that you offered that. I love it. Thank you. Yes. And so, uh, if we can go back to like, your personal experience with your supporting birth in the hospital.
Like, what is, is that, how is that for you? So my
recent birth, I had. In the hospital and I, you know, I have a big heart for teenagers, for teenage girls and, and especially teenage girls in the foster system. That's one of the things I specialize in, is working with teenagers in the foster system because it's hard enough to be in the foster system, but to be a pregnant teenager in the foster system.
That's, it's, it's very stressful and sometimes they don't have anybody to turn to or understand what's going on. or they're very young so they don't understand what they're getting themselves into and going to a hospital and having a baby and they don't understand the interventions because, you know, as a society we're very brainwashed.
And whatever's on TV and movies, that's how it's supposed to be. And that's not how it is at all. And not at all. So on my most, uh, recent birth, um, I had a teenage girl and teenage. and she had a very traumatic burst. She, she, you know, from my eyes, didn't deal with pain very well and I kept telling her, like, to breathe, breathe through that pain.
But when you are in pain and if you don't learn how to breathe properly, you're gonna hold that in your body and all that pain, and it's just gonna slow everything down mm-hmm. and make it more painful. So, and I'm very familiar with pain because I have endometriosis and I've dealt with reproductive pain for, for years.
I'm 39 now, and I've dealt with it since I was about 14, 15. Oh, wow. So, I'm very familiar with all of that pain. It's been compared to childbirth. And so I, you know, I, I come from a place of love when I'm in that space and I understand what the woman is. . So my client, you know, she was dealing with a lot of pain and really not wanting to move much, and I kept trying to encourage her, you know, try other positions, let's move.
But she just, you know, wasn't wanting to, she had an epidural. The epidural wore off. So she felt everything, and it was a long labor. . You know, she went into labor a couple days before that and I give her props because she got herself to six centimeters before she went to the hospital, which is a lot of women don't even do that on their own.
So I encourage her, you know, wait in as long as you can before you go to the hospital. Whenever in her water broke the night before, and then she went and they had told her she has six centimeters. When I arrived to the hospital, I think I was only there for like an hour and then they let her know she was at nine centimeters.
So I was like, that's great. You're, you're almost there. You know, one more centimeter and hopefully the baby comes out soon. Right? But, um, it didn't go that way. Obviously, , it was several hours later before she had the baby. Um, the staff was really, , but I had to intervene a few times because she wanted to use a birthing bar cuz she, she eventually wanted to get up and try to push on her own, which is okay if she wants to push on her own.
But they kept telling her, don't push it. Hmm. And they kept telling her, well if you don't get this baby out, we're gonna have to give you Pitocin. And she was like, I don't want Pitocin. That's gonna be so much worse. And she started to freak out.
And so, you know, it came down to that time and the doctor came in and everything, and I am a type of person, I'm not gonna hold back too much. Mm-hmm. , that's what I'm there for. I'm there to empower you and encourage you to use your voice to speak up for yourself because they're going to listen to the client.
versus the doula. Cuz the doula is just there for support. They're not the client and contracted with them, so, right. I try to tell the clients, you know, speak up for yourself, or if they aren't, then the partner, uh, or go encourage the partner, Hey, you know, you need to tell the staff what you want or tell them that you don't want this.
So when it came down to the birth, I was not, , I really had to bite my tongue because of what I saw. Um, in the birthing space, the doctor, you know, she was having a hard time pushing mm-hmm. , and she was concerned about tearing and they couldn't get the baby out. So the next thing I heard was the doctor saying, go get the baby shampoo and.
I was like, baby shampoo. And so I said to my client, is that something you want? And I said, what is that for? The doctor said, oh, it's just to help the baby come out, which I have never heard of. And later on I found out that's a big no no. Mm-hmm. . And that's third world country stuff. And if you ever see that, say something, because that shouldn't, I mean that that could cause infection in the.
that's chemical. Coles being put and it can cause a u t I and other things. They did that in everything and eventually, you know, she got the head out. Um, I believe that she did tear, but they didn't tear. Tell her that she tore until later on. Mm-hmm. , because she was asking and they flat out loud. Oh, interesting.
She didn't, she didn't tear and they tell her, no, you didn't tear. . And so when you know she is pushing and pushing and she's screaming because she's in so much pain, I heard the nurse say, stop screaming. Oh geez. And focus all your attention on your pushing. And I turned to her and I said, use your voice vocalize however you want.
and I was just kind of very disappointed in the nurse at that point. Cause I imagine she's had children herself. You can't help the noise are gonna come outta you. Exactly. and, and, and telling a young girl to stop screaming that, that was just not okay to me. And so she kept pushing and pushing and she started to scream, but then I noticed that she stopped herself and that, that made me really sad because she was shut down in that moment.
and so baby came out. The couple had, you know, already agreed that they wanted to do placenta encapsulation with me, so, and they also wanted to do cord clamping. Well, before that had even happened, the nurse had told us that they do cord clamping. They honor that. The doctor honors that, but only 30 to 60.
Oh, the delayed cord clamping.
Yeah. And I, I, but my telling you, when the doctor had walked out, I, I talked to the boyfriend, the partner, and I said, if, is that something you want? Cause I know what you guys wanted and if this is something you want, like, you have the right to do longer than that. And so he said, yeah, he was gonna say something.
When it came down to it, baby came out and. I heard. Okay. Immediately, honestly, it wasn't even that long. She's like, okay, it's been 120 seconds. Can we cord Clem? And you know, the mother's exhausted that everything's happening so quickly. They're just like, yes. And I was just like, really? It was very disappointing to me.
So, mm-hmm. , they didn't honor what they wanted at. and they took advantage of that. And that's unfortunate. When there's couples that are young, the hospital staff is just going to do things at a routine and try to take advantage of the situation, and that's where a doula comes in. Right. But, you know, I, I didn't say anything.
Everything was happening so fast, and I guess because she had a difficult birth and the baby was in there longer. They called in the NICU staff before that, and they said the baby had a fever when the baby was born and he had tachycardia, which is just rapid heart rate. Mm-hmm. . So I'm asking, okay, what's going on?
Like, what's, what's happening? just because like you should explain that to the mother.
Exactly. Yeah. I,
it's crazy. Mother's not gonna understand what that means, especially when you say tachycardia. A lot of people don't understand what, what is that like? I understand what it is because I understand medical terminology.
Um, but eventually, and I will said, just put the baby on the mother because it'll regulate the body temperature in the heart. , eventually they did. Mm-hmm. . But that was just upsetting to just witness that happening and not even caring about what the mother was feeling. Yeah. And so, you know, and it came down to it, we told them, you know, we're doing, we're saving the placenta so I can take it with me or whatever.
Um, but I literally watched the. Cut the, they cut the, the cord very strangely. Even the staff was like, that's weird. I've never seen it like that. Um, but I literally watched the staff suck all the blood out of the cord with needles and syringes to save for whatever. they're going to do with it. And I mean, stem cells, , I, I know what they do with it.
Like I know I'm familiar and I educate my clients. This is what really happens. Cause I don't like to beat around the bush, I'm going to be honest. And so I tell the clients what they really do with the placenta and the cords if you don't take it with you.
Yeah. And do you wanna kind of touch on, uh, what they do?
Or what we know that they do .
Yeah. I, you know, lady, if your placenta is sold for about $45,000 and you know, stem cells, yes, they are very beneficial in healing, whatever, but those, that's an organ that you grew. That's your organ, that's your babies, and you have every right to keep it, and it shouldn't be taken away from you.
In indigenous cultures, like I said, , it's its own spirit. And that's something that's very sacred and it should be honored definitely. And so you need to take that with you. And yeah, they take those and they sell them for money. And so I'm watching this happen and literally right from my eyes and I'm see all the staff and so I said to my client, is this something that you want?
And somehow, it was thrown into, oh, well it's just for testing, but not really, because I think, I think that the client's mother had said, oh, they just do testing, right? And this, the girl was like, well, not exactly. Yeah. But yeah, so whatever. But I'm sitting there watching this. I'm like infuriated because I know what's really happening, but I can't really do anything about it cause it's not mine.
The client, whatever, that's whatever she wanted. And so mm-hmm. , but then I watched the doctor turn around and start sucking the blood out of placenta. Yeah. And it was like, it was just very disappointing and infuriating. Yeah.
And then, so before she went into labor, I don't know, was there anything that you feel like maybe you could have done differently to educate her?
Or do you feel like you gave her all the tools and she kind of ran with it the way she kind of wanted?
Well, every client is different. Some are very, all about their birth and they want to know everything that's going on. They're very happy and excited. You. , but a lot of young girls are not completely educated on birthed.
They're not gonna completely understand everything that's happening. Mm-hmm. , and this is why self-healing is a very important thing to work on yourself and understand things about yourself. But, you know, I, she did a lot of research herself about things that she didn't want done, like the vitamin K, erythromycin, like.
she was very educated and I was very proud of her for, for doing that for herself and knowing what those were and the benefits and pros and cons and whatever. Yeah. Uh, that's amazing. And so she did that. She did that herself. And, you know, I would just give her like tools and different things, um, that she was dealing with about being in pain or I, you know, towards the end I would try to encourage, , you know, tried to walk, do some walking, do some exercises if you can, because you wanna move that baby down into the birth can.
Because if you are not moving enough and you're restricting yourself the baby, and I already, I knew at that point. That she was gonna have a difficult birth because she was complaining about being in pain and it was hard for her to move around a lot. And so she couldn't really do much walking or exercises or whatever.
So I knew it was gonna be a difficult birth for her, but I, you know, I did my MA best too there for her, whatever support that she needed. Mm-hmm. , and I would encourage her to you. Get information from the doctor that she needed for prenatal appointments. Yeah. And if she wasn't happy with her ob, then she had every right to switch to another provider because Yes, you do.
You do not have to stick with your provider if you're unhappy. Yeah. But you know, like I said, a lot of young girls are just like, whatever, I don't care. I'm just done. I almost wanna get the baby out of me. They're not going to. Think or try to advocate for themselves about, Hey, you know, I really want another doctor.
Yeah. And man, I wish I would've had you when I had my first baby, because I had her a month before I turned 17. So I was technically still 16. And I just felt the pressure of the world going into that hospital and there was like, you know, timer on me because my water had already broken and they told me to stay in the bed because they had to monitor the baby.
And you know, it ultimately led to a C-section that was unnecessary. But gosh, I didn't even think to educate myself in that moment because I was like, well, everybody has babies all the time, so my body will just know how to do it. , but now, you know, I feel differently about that because of my experiences.
So yeah, I would suggest anybody who's pregnant or thinking about having a baby, like just educate yourself. Just look into some things because they're, especially if you're having a hospital birth, I mean, either way, yes. Home birth, birth center, or hospital birth. Like do your research cause. , there's so many things that you wouldn't even think of that happen in the hospital.
Exactly. And it's not, like I said, it's not what we see in movies and TV at all. That's there to pretty much brainwash us so that the medical industry, Western medicine, can pretty much take advantage of us as women. And you know, there's so much Today's technology, the internet. , you have it all right In front of you, you have the ability to do your research.
You do videos because women have babies every day and they're making videos about their births and everything. There's birth education courses taken, education course about childbirth. Um, yeah, particularly not one from a hospital because that's going to be catered to hospital birth. Yeah, do one outside of the hospital.
Yeah. And there's, there's so many out there and there's so many great ones. And doulas have their own education courses as well. I don't have one yet, but in the near future, I am going to create one.
Oh, I think that would be so amazing. Oh, I can't wait for that . Yes. Yeah. But I think it's important to focus on the fact that it's, you should really look.
Birth education outside of the system because, you know, I hate, I don't wanna bash hospitals because there's a place for hospitals, there's a place for Western medicine. , but typically for like a healthy woman who's having a normal pregnancy, it's really not necessary to get all these interventions like Pitocin, like in epidural.
Yeah. Um, I mean, there's so many things and if you know like the ingredients in all of these things and you're still okay with them, have at it, you know, but do your research so you know what's going into your body, you know, because. Unfortunately a hospital is a business.
It is. They are. And a lot of women don't realize that.
And a hospital is a place where sick people go. Yeah. A hospital is really not a place to have a baby. and I listened to this podcast of this doctor, uh, Dr. Stu. Oh yeah. Love him. He really awesome. Mm-hmm. , I mean, he says, you know, he calls people clients, not patients, because patients are people who are sick.
Yeah. And it's the truth. Childbirth has been happening for generations forever. Mm-hmm. , I mean, how do you think we got here? And so how do you think women did it before? There was no hospitals then.
Exactly. And for anyone who's not familiar with Dr. Stu, he is, his podcast is Birthing Instincts and he is actually an ob, B G Y N, who worked in the hospital for many years and he actually, um, transitioned over to being a.
home birth ob gyn. So he only dealt with home births and you know, a lot of times special cases such as, um, one lady had a v a after three C-sections with a breach baby and he helped her, you know, in that situation at home. Home. So, you know, it is possible. Um, but anyways, he's amazing. . Yes,
yes he is. So I encourage anybody who's.
listen to his podcast because there's a lot of good education because it's coming from a doctor. Mm-hmm. . And he will flat out tell you the truth. And a lot of doctors aren't like him. He's very unique and very special.
Yes. Yes he is. Yeah. So, um, going back to kind of like your experience, um, so do you still support hospital births or was that kinda, I mean,
I will, you know, yeah.
I, I do. I mean, whatever the. Once I'm there to support her. Mm-hmm. and their partner or whatever, if they choose to have baby in hospital, that that's fine. That's on them. I mean, I'm not the one paying their bill. I'm not gonna tell them, oh no, don't do that. But I will educate them on the pros and cons of being in a hospital versus a birthing center or at home, which unfortunately in Fresno, we don't have a birthing center.
Oh, okay. Um, yeah, we don't have that. It would be really nice. And we only have two midwives here, and so I don't know too many people that go outside the hospital to have a baby. Yeah. My one recent client had a home birth. . And so the midwife came to her and so I asked her, cause she had a daughter and she just had a son.
I said, so how was it being at home versus the hospital? And she said, , I'll make a
difference. I bet a big difference. And she was so much happier. Good. Oh, I love that. And so how do you feel like, um, like what expectations do you think are reasonable for a. Couple to have when they're hiring like a doula.
Cuz I feel like sometimes people confuse doulas with midwives and they think that doulas are medicalized, which obviously we're not. But um, so anyways, I just wanna get your take on what kind of expectations they should have. Well, if
I were the person being pregnant and I hired a doula not knowing anything about doulas,
Like I said, do your research, educate yourself on what a doula is, and then you interview the doula. I mean, a doula's gonna interview you too, because everything has to be aligned. You should only work together if you're in alignment with each other really, because like I said, that's a very sacred. and so, you know, you have the right to ask the doula whatever questions you want, what they are going to do to help you, what they can do to help you and what they do and don't do for me as a doula.
Like I said, I, I'm there to empower you as a woman to step into your power and to know what childbirth is and how you can advocate for yourself. And, and doula training with certain organizations, they'll tell you, well, you can't, you can't speak for the client. Mm-hmm. . But in certain situations, I'm going to step back and let you try to do it for yourself.
But if I notice, yeah, you're not doing it for yourself, I will speak. , I will say something and I will question what's happening.
Yeah. And I think it's important to have, um, like those. Kind of like rules, I guess, set in place while the person is still pregnant. Like, you know, talk to them and say, Hey, if this situation happens, do you want me to speak for you or do you want me to talk to your partner and have them speak for you?
How should we do this? Because once you're in the throes of labor, a lot of times you're like, I don't even care. I don't care. Like whatever. Yeah. So, yeah,
that's, you know, and that's what I do with my clients. I tell. , you know, if this and this happens, you're going to speak up and if you feel like you can't speak up, then I will say something and I try to come up with a code word, say, you know, bananas, bananas pretty much lets me know like, okay, I need to step in and say something.
And you know, a lot of women, you know, have their partner. , but sometimes women don't have partners in the picture, so that's another place for a doula because who's gonna be there to support you And yeah, they could have their mother or their sister or whatever, but sometimes in the birthing space, family members get involved.
They've had children and so they think they know best for you. Mm-hmm. and do it like this because, oh, I've had two children, so I know what you're going through, but. , yeah, you may know what you're going through, but you haven't experienced the same traumas of that person. You haven't been in the shoes and the life and the skin of that person, so everything is going to be completely different.
No birth is the same. It doesn't feel the same. I mean, yeah, everybody's, it's painful, but it doesn't have to be painful because pain is just the body's. Of expressing itself and expressing trauma and letting you know something is
happening. Yeah, and I think a good way to look at it is, I mean, it might feel painful, but it's, it's, it's like a sensation with purpose.
It's not, because typically we're conditioned to think pain, oh my gosh, I need to get away from this. Yes. Because, you know, it doesn't feel good. Yes. Well this is a purposeful sensation. So I think if we kind of change our mindset of what exactly this sensation is, I think that will help us so much.
Yes. And you know, I also.
Encourage meditation for clients if they're open to it. And there's so many different meditations online that you can follow, or even just, you know, you have to follow one sit still for five minutes, and that's really hard for some people to do because your mind is constantly running. Yeah. But it's really important to slow our minds down and just go within and be with ourselves and focus on your breath, because the breath is extremely important.
your breath is everything in childbirth. Mm-hmm. .
Oh yeah. And I think if you're breathing, when you're in childbirth, if it's like super fast and you're kind of like hyperventilating, that's gonna lead to that tension Yes. Felt in your body. And yeah. So I think it's super important to just hone in on your breath.
Yes. And focus on that, cuz that'll also help you focus on something other than these painful sensations. Yes,
exactly. Yeah. Focus on the breath. That's what I always tell people. Focus on your breath.
Breathe. Yeah, I love that. So is there anything that you wanted to touch on or you wanted to give in our partying after this conversation?
Uh, like I
said, I am a doula. I'm very holistic. And so if everybody is different when it comes down to choosing a doula, make sure you choose a doula that. right for you in alignment for you. Um, not everybody's holistic. Mm-hmm. , our doulas aren't, A lot of people don't even understand what holistic means.
And so choose somebody that's right for you. And if you are unhappy with a person or something that's happening or misunderstanding, let them know. Mm-hmm. , hey, this is, you know, I'm not happy with this. Communicate. Communicate. Very important. So make sure you communicate with everybody around you that's going to be part of your birthing
space.
Beautiful. Well thank you so much. Um, so if there's like a way to connect with you, the best ways to connect with you, uh, what would those be for people if they wanna find you? Instagram,
I have an Instagram page that people could follow me on. It's at phenomenal. Woman, W O M B as in boy, a n
underscore birth worker.
Yeah, and I'll also put that in the show notes so that people can just click the link and get right to you.
Yeah, that's the best way to reach me. Or I have a website, triple w phenomenal woman.com, which you can also link for them as well. And they have a website and a beautiful logo that a really good friend of mine.
Yeah, I was gonna mention that. It's beautiful. It's like the tree of life.
Yes. I, you know, like I said, I, after sitting with medicine, after sitting with that came to me and I had the vision and I just told her what I wanted and she created it and she's awesome. She's amazing.
Yeah, so do I, . All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on today.
This was a thank you. Very great conversation. I can't wait for people to hear it. All right. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Of course. Bye. Bye.
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed creating it. Please subscribe so you don't miss any of the discussions on all of these hot topics. Head over to my Instagram at the Birth Junkie podcast to let me know what you thought about this episode. I can't wait to see you here next week.
Until next time, bye.
