Understanding how "Good Girl" conditioning shows up in Pregnancy and Motherhood

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Hey, you're listening to the Birth Junkie Podcast. Get ready to dive into all things Birth with me. We talk about all the hot topics from preconception to postpartum. I'm so excited for you to join me on this journey to realizing that we're all human. We all make mistakes, and it's gonna be messy at times, and we're all just kind of figuring it all out as we go.

Now if you're ready to hear raw, unfiltered in real life stories of struggles, triumphs, and learn a thing or two from parents and birth professionals alike, then come along as we navigate this thing called parenthood together.

All right, well, welcome Nicole. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you, Petra. I'm so excited to be. Yay. All right, so if you could just give us a little bit of insight into like who you are and what you're here for. Sure. So I am Nicole Pir. I am a, oh man, what am I? I'm a lot of things. . Um, my most favorite role is mom.

I am a mom to my 16 month old daughter Aubrey and our two border Collies. And, um, prior to becoming a mom, I was a registered nurse. I was working in geriatric mental health. Um, since having a baby, since going on maternity leave, um, I'm not going back to my nursing job. And instead I've been bitten by the birth bug and have now, um, been following this new passion of birth and motherhood and just all the things that go with it.

I am also, uh, married to my junior high school sweetheart. We've literally been together since the ninth grade and I've known him since the fourth grade, so that's pretty crazy. And we live in Canada. Um, so. Still winter up here and it will be for another month or two unfortunately. Um, what else can I say?

I, uh, like I said, I kind of got bit by the birth bug after going through my own pregnancy and my own birth. I ended up having a. Home water birth. Uh, we can probably talk more about that as we get into this episode here, but that's kind of what led me to where I'm at today. So I'm currently a childbirth educator and a, uh, motherhood coach.

And I basically just help moms prepare for, prepare for birth and ultimately like detach from societal norms and conditioning that we've all been led to believe and just do things their own way. So that's me. I love it. That's perfect. . So I kind of wanted to start with your birth, like you said. So you were kind of brought to have a home birth for your first baby, which we don't Yeah.

And it, yeah. You don't hear that a lot. Didn't start that way. No. And it didn't start that way. So, like I said, I was a nurse. Um, so I, I, I have that medical background and. I mean, I kind of understand how babies are born and what that process looks like. So feel like I was heading into my pregnancy and my birth with that bit of education under my belt.

But I realized really quickly on in my own pregnancy that I didn't know anything about unmedicated birth. I knew having a, putting bunny here, quotes here, I wanted a natural birth. I didn't want to, um, . Yeah, I was, I was wanting to do things as naturally as possible, but I didn't really know how or what that would look like.

All of my friends in my inner circle either had epidurals or had had unplanned emergency C-sections, and I was just thinking, okay, there's gotta be a different way. Like women have been giving birth for literally billions and billions of years. Like how, why? Why is it that literally everyone I know is ending up in surgery?

Something's not right here and. I started going down some rabbit holes. I started reading books. I started listening to podcasts and I started realizing that holy cow, everything we're led to believe and everything we're taught. And even myself, everything I, I was taught in nursing school is just medicalizing the snot out of childbirth,

And so I quickly kind of realized that, wait a minute, in order to actually have this natural birth that I want, I think I have to stay. I don't think I can set foot in the hospital. And then again, being a nurse, I was worried that if I did set foot in the hospital, that my nurse hat would go on and I would then be like, oh, what's that IV alarm doing?

Or like, I would, you know what I mean? Like I would just start thinking like a nurse does and worrying about all the little things that really don't concern me. But it's really hard to be a patient when you're. There's other nurses listening, they'll know what I mean. And so I realized that like the first thing I need to do is not be a patient because I'm pregnant, I'm not sick.

So , that was the first thing I kind of switched my mindset around is that patient mentality. And I was able to, so in Canada it's a little bit different than, um, in the states where we basically have. The option to either have like an ob, like low risk maternity care or apply for a midwife and the province I live in, it's like winning the lottery to get a midwife.

So I applied literally as soon as I peed on a stick. I think I literally applied for a midwife before I even told my husband because that's what you have to do to get a midwife. And thankfully I did get one, so I was under midwifery care, which meant home birth was an option for me. Had I not been able to get a midwife, home birth wouldn't even be an option unless I was willing to go like the unassisted free birth route, which when I was pregnant, that definitely did not even cross my mind.

So step number one was get a midwife, which I did get. And so that opened the, the doors for me to even start considering a home birth. I will tell you that the, the, the first couple months of my pregnancy, I even remember my first phone call with the midwife clinic. I don't think it was with my midwife specifically, but with the midwifery clinic.

They were asking me, okay, like, so this is your first pregnancy. Where are you planning to give birth? Which hospital? All those questions. And I said, I told them which hospital. I said, which one was closest to me? And I. I vividly remember this. I said, unless someone's gonna convince me to have a home birth.

So right then and there, it was like in the back of my mind and I felt like I just needed to be convinced. I needed someone to tell me first time moms can have home births, because I truly thought that, no, like there's no way, like, that's just crazy. Like it's, it's crazy enough that I wanna have a natural.

but it's even crazier that I think I can do that at home without ever giving birth before. So the back of my mind, I wanted to hear it, but like as front of mind, I was thinking, no, I need to have given birth first. We'll plan a home birth for the second birth. That's kind of where I was at in like the first and second trimester.

And just so I don't lengthen the story any longer than I need to. I ultimately didn't decide or commit to planning for a home birth until I. Uh, I think it was at my 30 or 32 week appointment, so Oh wow. Was planning a hospital birth basically my entire pregnancy. It wasn't till the very end. And so who convinced you?

So it's funny cuz it still wasn't necessarily like a convincing that happened. I ended up hiring a doula again. I thought, okay, if I'm going to. So back into like the second trimester when I was thinking, okay, we're having a hospital birth. This is also in the middle of Covid, which I think, like, I don't think covid for many things, but I think Covid was actually the cherry on top because we were heading right into another wave and hospital policies were changing every day.

And at that time, um, only one support person was allow. In the hospital for a birth. So I would've had to choose my doula or my husband, and my husband knows this. I would've chosen my doula, . Oh wow. . Um, but that was like, Hey, wait a minute. Like, I want my husband, obviously he's the father to my baby. He needs to be a part of this, but I've also now paid for this doula who I want to be there as well.

And so I think that ultimately was the cherry on top that was like, better off just planning for it. Worst case will transfer, but let's plan for. , and it was in the prenatal appointments that I had with my doula that she really helped me just kind of like look at all the options and like really consider, okay, what are the things I'm scared of if I'm in the hospital versus what am I scared of if I stay home?

And she really helped just normalize things for my husband as well. The whole time he was, it wasn't that he wasn't, He wasn't anti home birth, but again, we just didn't know anyone that had done it. So it was like, mm-hmm. , uh, it seems kind of risky, right? Like it we're literally, we at the time, we lived like seven minutes away from the hospital.

And like even with that, in the back of our minds, it's like it's, I don't know, everyone has their babies in hospital. Why are we trying to do something so out there? But he always just said like, it's completely up to you. So he was gonna support me with whatever I chose. Mm-hmm. . And that was great, but also hard in the sense that, okay, now this is on me.

This decision is on me. And so, like I said, it wasn't till around that 30, 32 week ish point in my pregnancy that I finally decided to commit and. It's funny because it still wasn't even me committing what it was, was me walking into my midwife appointment for that prenatal meeting. I don't even remember what's discussed at that that time.

But, um, I said, so I'm like considering a home birth, like can we talk about it? Can we like, discuss what it looks like with you guys? Like just kind of sifting out my options with her. Cuz this would've been after my discussion with, with my doula. Mm-hmm. . And at the end of the appointment, she sent me home with like a take home iv.

Kit, like they have like little kits that they send home with their home birth mamas just so that some supplies are already there and it's less for the midwives to have to bring the day of, I guess. And she sent me home with like a home birth supply checklist and like all the things I'm like, okay, I guess this is happening.

I guess we are planning for a homework . Wow. Yeah. And at the time I really didn't tell many people. We didn't wanna be talked out of it, or at least I didn't wanna be talked out of it. So my mom knew, but the rest of our family didn't know. My husband's parents didn't know. Um, I think I maybe told like one or two close friends, but again, for the most part, nobody knew.

When people said, oh, where are you having your baby? I just told them the closest hospital. Mm-hmm. and yeah. So I kind of just kept preparing and planning. In my own, in my own little lane. Just I, yeah, . I love that. Oh my gosh, I love that so much. You just took the reins and you're like, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.

I don't care what anybody says, so I'm just, I'm just not gonna tell 'em. I love that. Yeah. And was there anything that you feel like came up for you? Like, cuz you know, a, there's a lot of fear surrounding home birth and that's why you don't hear about it so much, especially. Like your first baby. So was there any emotions that came up for you when you were planning this, when you were like, oh my gosh, I'm really doing this.

So for me, I don't think there was, I had done so much preparation in terms of like understanding how the physiologic process of birth works that I don't think I was so much scared of birth. What I was scared of was, um, Like the judgment of my friends or family if I ended up having to transfer. And that was a huge reason why I didn't wanna tell them we were planning it, because if we didn't, if we did end up having to transfer, they never would've even known that it was a fail, if you know what I mean.

Right. They would've just assumed, oh, well the plan was hospital all along. Um, and so yeah, I'd I'd say like the biggest. The biggest thing for me towards the end of my pregnancy and even beginning of like my postpartum period was just getting confident in doing something that I wanted to do, not because someone was expecting it from me and.

Um, this is gonna get into a big part of, I think what our conversation is headed towards is, yeah, like good girl conditioning and people pleasing, and this is really where it all started. For me. That was like the first time in my life. I, like literally the first time I had ever done something solely because I wanted to, not because it was what it was expected from me, from society, or from my parents, or from whoever.

Mm-hmm. . I was, I was that girl. I got good grades in school. I went straight to university. After finishing high school, I got a good degree that I was told would give me everything I wanted. Um, I got married, we bought a house. We had kids, right? We did things in the right order. We did things exactly as you're supposed to.

And so having a baby at home was tab. , and especially as a first time mom, and especially for someone that like, I don't consider myself a hippie. I don't consider myself super crunchy or anything like that. Like yes, I'm naturally minded, but still, it was very unexpected, I think, for anyone that knows me or knows us.

And yeah, so it was literally the first time I did something. It was just for me because I wanted to and. Obviously I did, I I did have that home water birth, um mm-hmm. . It was literally like picture perfect. We probably don't need to get into the details unless you want me to, but had the picture perfect home water birth that, um, everybody wants.

I got it. Um, and as cool as it was to be able to say, yeah, I just had a baby. I'm medicated in my living room. The even cooler part for me was that I just did something that nobody expected. To do and like I just went against the grain, or at least what I thought was the status quo, and that ended up being a really freeing experience for me.

And almost, yeah, like so that's. What the questions that brought me into that conversation, but, well, I, well, the question was, you know, if anything came up, you know, during, when you were preparing for this, but I feel like we should have a whole episode of your birth story because now I'm like, on the edge of my seat.

I wanna hear it so . But I do wanna, you know, talk about this, like you mentioned that good girl conditioning, because I think that that's such a big issue. Especially when we're pregnant and when we're giving birth. Like we're in this vulnerable state and for some reason we still want to appease others.

We wanna do what is the norm? We wanna do what is mainstream, what is expected of us? Um, so yeah, I want to come back to that and get your take on that. Yeah. And for me, like in the moment, I didn't even realize that that's what was happening, right? Like, I didn't even realize that this was just. Um, wanting to people please and wanting to just do everything that people expect of me, and I didn't realize that it was from years and years and years of good girl conditioning and just like how society primes us to be a certain way.

It wasn't until, um, later on in my postpartum that I actually was doing some nervous system work. I was actually working with a somatic experiencing coach and she. Just explaining the nervous system to me and explaining, um, the FAW response. And I don't know if you or your listeners are, um, aware of the FAW response, but basically it is a nervous system response where we fawn, we change what we're doing to appease other people, and that's a survival response so that we aren't facing a threat.

Right? It's how we, it's how. Manage and survive through that threat is basically changing our own behavior. It's a behavioral adaptation. Mm-hmm. to keep ourselves safe. And as females, we are literally like biologically predisposed to Fallon because it's in our nature to be very nurturing and it's in our nature to take care of others, but we can't forget about taking care of ourselves.

And that's kind of. I think society has gone too far in placing super high expectations on women specifically to just do all the things and be all the things. And we're stretched thin and we are literally taught not to trust our instincts. And we're taught to trust external sources and rely on outside sources for external validation.

And this starts like right from a really young age, right? We. In school, we're supposed to stress a certain way and we're supposed to get certain grades and we're supposed to not be too much, but we're supposed to smile and like not be too loud. And even younger than school-aged children, you're told, oh, just go sit on uncle whoever's lap.

And like, even if you don't want to, we are taught to resist and ignore. Urge or that instinct inside of us that says, no, we don't want to. So right from an early age, we are suppressing that little thing inside of us that says, no, and we do things just to appease other people. Yep. And so in pregnancy, I think what happens, especially for first time moms, because we are scared shitless because we have no idea what we're doing.

We've never done it before. And now for the first time ever, we are responsible for this. Person, this human that we're growing inside of us. And I remember for myself, it was one thing to be worried about myself, but a whole nother level to now be responsible for this other something. And. That really changes things because you're even more worried about, oh my gosh, am I doing the right thing?

Am I eating the right foods? Am I making the right choice? Am I doing this? Am I doing that? And so, because we don't have the confidence in ourselves and we don't even know how to trust our instinct and our inner voice, of course we're gonna rely on outside sources and, uh, trust the experts. And it's not that these experts are wrong.

The experts are basically just going off of science and statistics and we aren't a st. We aren't a statistic, right. We are each unique and we have our own things going on, and yeah, so it gets tricky in pregnancy. It shows up a lot. Yeah, definitely. And obviously once you do end up giving birth, Then there's this whole other layer of that that I feel like comes into play.

And did you experience that? Yeah, and I'd say postpartum is where it kind of actually came to the surface for me, or at least like came to my own awareness that I was doing this and that I was people pleasing and fawning. That's really when it started to, um, Actually like show up for me. Well, no, I have been doing it my whole life.

I just wasn't aware. So it was when I finally became conscious to the fact that I was doing it. But even in birth, like had I not chosen to have a home birth and had I not been very clear on boundaries and my birth plan and such, it would've been, I would've just fallen into my. My usual tendencies. Had I potentially planned a hospital birth and had things been recommended or suggested in my birth, like I wouldn't have been able to say no because I would've wanted to be a good patient and I wouldn't have wanted to make my midwives job harder or the nurse's job harder.

I wouldn't have wanted to make things uncomfortable for them. I would've avoided any confrontation. I wouldn't have wanted to rock the. . Um, so I mean, I was lucky in the sense that by having a home birth, I was really able to take on the role of I'm writing the story and I'm calling the shots because I don't think I would've been able to do it as confidently in the hospital.

And I think that's, one big thing that if someone is planning a hospital birth and they're now worried by what I'm saying, and they're thinking, oh my gosh, that's me. I think the biggest thing is to really learn how to advocate and practice saying no before you actually have to say no. Um, and then, yeah, and to postpartum, like the ways it was showing up for me was I remember, so again, that doula I hired, I hired her for postpartum support as well.

And I actually only came to this realization a couple weeks ago that I wasn't able to receive her support, not in the way that I was supposed to. Right. I was, again, people pleasing and being that good girl and wanting to show up as this like tough person. I didn't want anyone to see me as vulnerable or weak.

And so those early postpartum days, I. Insisted that I still like maintain my house, and if someone came over, I wanted to host them and make them a cup of tea. I wanted to make sure like my laundry was put away, like all these things. And even though I had hired postpartum support, a person that was literally supposed to come take care of me, come mother me, I wasn't in a place where I was open to receive that because I was so just.

Stuck in this people pleasing state. And again, like at the time, I didn't know that's what I was doing and I, I didn't feel like it was people pleasing that I was doing, but with people pleasing, at least for myself, comes this need to be perfect. So perfectionism and overachieving and all these things have been common themes in my life.

So looking back, it's no surprise that those things showed up postpartum as well. And anyways, just to finish that story about the postpartum doula support, I ended up donating my remaining hours because I'm like, I don't really, like, there's nothing for you to do. Cause I wasn't willing to let her do things for me.

She would literally come over and we would just like sit and chat and, I mean, I love the conversation. I love her like we are friends now. But that's not what that relationship was supposed to be in those early. And looking back like it was the same thing with my mom and my husband. Like I was only able to let them help to a certain point and then it would be like, no, I need to be tough or like, I need to almost like one up, whoever else I knew that was just in this situation.

Right. I wanted to make sure, almost like my competitive nature came out too, and oh my goodness, what a mess. . Well, and I feel like that's so normal because it's, it's hard. It's hard for us, as you know, moms and we're, we have that nurturing nature and we just want to take care of everything and it's hard to sit in the discomfort.

Because it's uncomfortable to sit down and watch somebody else take care of what you feel like is your job. Yeah, and I mean it, you're right, like we need to be in that right mindset to be mothered as a mother, we need to be mothered too. Yeah. And. Gosh, I just love that you brought that up because like, I'm the same way.

Whenever people would come over, I would clean, even though they were coming over to help me clean, I would clean before they came over to clean. Like it was ridiculous. Um, but I feel like it's in our nature and it's hard for us to just sit back and be, and I think we need to try to focus more on that, is we just, we just need to be.

Yeah. More being and less doing. Exactly. But it's really hard because society really doesn't support that way of, of being . Right. And we're not really supported to lean into the more feminine side of things. Our society really, um, just has a higher level of support for a more masculine way of thing. A way of like thinking and a way of, of doing.

And so that looks. Being independent and um, just kind of like excelling at everything that you do and that go, go go mentality. And I mean, when we look at, um, paid time off after, after having a baby, like I live in Canada, so it's, it's pretty good here. But I know in the states, like people are lucky if they even get six weeks.

And so how is that support. Of a new mom who is really needing to just focus on herself, look inwards, focus on her healing, and be open to receiving support and be mothered herself. She can't be, when society is literally, literally telling her that she has to jump back and bounce back into her old way of life.

There is no room. There is no room to. Soft and vulnerable and weak. And the thing is, is it's not weak. I know that now. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of it unfortunately stems from social media and the fact that we glorify, you know, the person who's doing the most and can do it all by themselves and. We don't showcase the fact that it's hard and some of us don't have the capabilities to do it all by ourselves or get help so that we can focus on these certain things.

Um, So I think it's really important to make sure that we share this with the world. Like it's okay to not do everything. It's okay to ask for help because Yeah, yeah. We, we always see, oh my gosh. People are like, you're supermom. I don't know how you do it, but why? Why are we making that? Why are we making that the best thing for us to be?

That's, that's not good for our mental health, not how do we get anything done. We start looking at what this means in terms of our nervous system. And so this is kind of where all this came, came fully present for me is understanding my nervous system a bit more. And in the nervous system world, you hear about like regulation and being regulated and co-regulate so you can regulate with your kids and.

Those buzzwords around it. And we're all familiar with like fight or flight versus rest or digest. And, um, I don't wanna get too nerdy and sciency on you, but, um, polyvagal theory, which, um, we are now more familiar with, has introduced this third, um, branch of the nervous system. So instead of it just being fight or flight versus rest or digest, and we used to kind of think of that as.

Good or bad, or like breaks on, breaks off. And that's a very binary way of thinking. Um, don't do that. It's not good or bad. Um, there's good and bad to both sides of it. There are times when we want to be in a fight or flight state, and there are times that we don't wanna be in rest or digest. So it's not as simple as good or bad.

But thanks to polyvagal theory, we now understand there's actually this. Branch of our autonomic nervous system, and that is the social engagement branch. And so the social engagement branch is when we're in a place of, um, being able to connect with others and being able to receive and being able to, um, just like those really feel good feelings when you're in like a relationship with someone or when you go have dinner with a friend or.

When you're snuggling puppies and cuddling your newborn and oxytocin is flowing, that would be like your social engagement branch. And now the thing is, is social engagement branch, if it's under threat, that's when we see fawning behaviors come up. So we are trying to, and I already mentioned this with like the people pleasing tendencies and stuff, that's when we're trying to basically change our way.

And this is subconscious, right? We don't realize we're doing this cuz we've done it for so long. But we literally changed. We basically like turned down the volume of what our own needs are so that we can prioritize the needs of others. And what we don't realize is this isn't something that should be given a high five for.

This is a survival response, and this is our body literally feeling like it's under. . And so if we're constantly in this state, in this fawning state, it is really, really like, what's the right word? It's just not supportive of your overall health and wellbeing, right? You don't want to be stuck in a survival state.

You don't want to be stuck in fight or flight all the time. You don't want to be in survival mode because that's when we lead to, um, burnout and like chronic stress and. A whole host of other like physical symptoms related to like digestion or immunity. Like that's when all of those things start dysfunctioning is if our nervous system is constantly in this activated state and we're never able to actually relax and down regulate.

And so for me, this is kind of when the light bulb went off, when I realized, holy cow, like me fawning is actually a survival state. My body like screaming, saying, I'm not safe. I'm not safe. And instead of me actually showing my body safety and finding safety, I've just been letting myself spread thinner and thinner and thinner.

So if you were to talk to somebody that's struggling with this, what would you suggest to them? Like how would you suggest they kind of get through this? Yeah. So the first step is awareness. The first step is really just starting to notice these tendencies showing up in your life. Um, and that can, that can really just be as simple as catching yourself when you're saying I should, when you're shoulding on yourself, like, I should clean the house before so-and-so comes over, or I should.

Walking because apparently that's good to move my body every day, or I should, I, I don't like, there's gonna be different examples depending who you are and where you're at in your stage of motherhood. But if you start catching those shoulds and actually thinking about like, where's that pressure coming from?

Is this something that I actually wanna do? Or is this because someone else or something else has said, this is what I'm supposed to be doing? Right. So catching the. And then from there, this is the hardest part. Cause it's one thing to catch them. And again, if you're a people pleaser and a perfectionist like me, you're gonna wanna fix it

You're gonna wanna instantly fix it and do better. And the hard part here is we don't want to rush to fix it. We just want to create space to be with it. Mm-hmm. and just like acknowledge whatever sensations are happening in the body at that time. because the thing about the nervous system is it's like the body speaking to us.

So we can't think our way through things. We have to feel the things. And so the second step after awareness is actually just like feeling. So I'm trying to think of an example. Like let's say you, um, find out that your mother-in-law is coming over for dinner tonight and instantly. You become more alert and you're like, oh shit, I need to clean the floors and I need to load the dishwasher and I need to put, um, the, the dirty clothes or the clean clothes from laundry that I did four days ago.

I need to put those away. And so if you can start catching all those shoulds that you just did in that train of thought, and then also start feeling into what your body's feeling. And it probably feels very activated. I bet there's some tension. You potentially shallowed your breath without even realizing it.

Um, there'd be like a whole host of sensations happening in our body. And this is, this is actually the hardest part because we have, basically, we've just been humans walking around, like walking heads, walking around. We are so out of touch with our bodies. We've lost basically like the connection with our bodies to actually like, feel the sensations and the communication that our body is trying to.

We don't even notice the things that it's feeling because we've been told that in order to go, go, go and do, do, do. We have to just like bypass and override all of those symptoms and sensations. So, right, that second step is actually starting to feel those sensations. So what does it feel like when those shoulds pop up?

What does it feel like when you are. Activated and feeling like you need to go do something. I said, you don't want to run to try to fix it. You just want to hold space for those sensations. And one of the best examples I can give is you don't wanna be like watching them like a hawk. You wanna be. Almost as if you're on like an African safari and you're just watching the zebras grazing in the distance, and it's just kind of like something that's happening off to the side because if you pay too much attention to it, then you're just gonna become like hyper focused on it, and that's not what we want either.

So you just want this very like, Casual. I'm just being with these sensations and trusting that your body is gonna work through them and I think that's super important. You made a valid point, but I also wanna know like persons partner support them during this because I know it can be super hard to try to include our partners in all of this decision making, cuz I know a lot of times partners are like, Well, you just do it.

You, I trust what you decide, so you know, just let me know what you're gonna do. Yeah. So is there any way that you think we can actively include our partner or help suggest to them how they can support us through this? It's hard because like you said, they offer what I kind of call blind support, and that's kind of what my husband did.

I mean, they don't know what they're doing either, right? Especially if you are first time parents, they don't know what they're walking into and they. Feel pretty helpless because you are doing all of the work. And so I don't have a perfect answer because this is something my husband and I are still working on, but I think the biggest thing is just from like a birth preparation, um, perspective, is.

Really start to learn what like physiologic birth actually like, looks and sounds like. Because if all you're going off of is based on what you've either heard from friends or what you've seen on like movies and TVs and if your wife, like in my case is planning a home waterbirth, it's gonna look very different.

And it might be frightening to hear your wife moo like a cow in the middle of your living room, right? So, um, become. Just like normalize what physiologic and natural birth actually looks and sounds like would be my most tangible tip. And then from a more like nervous system standpoint and how to support your partner, if maybe they are that perfectionist, overachiever, people, pleaser kind of person is to almost like hold them accountable for meeting their own needs.

So I guess like what I mean by that is actually. . This is tricky because if someone's like me, it can be really, really hard to even identify our own need, let alone voice it, because we've had so many years of basically ignoring our own needs. So the partner's role can be helping to just like support you and actually voicing your needs and identifying them.

So maybe saying, What can I help you with today? Or like, what can, how can I help? What can I get you right now? And giving that question like, almost like a, um, it can't be like a yes or no question. It's like an open-ended question where um, the person actually has to think about, okay, what do I need in this moment?

And then it gives them the safe space to practice asking, cuz that can be really hard for people pleasers like myself is, it doesn't always feel. To ask, right? Because what if I get turned down? So yeah, giving that safe place for her to ask and voice her needs, and also just creating a space of like emotional safety.

And this can be really complicated. And in the postpartum period it's even messier because she's probably, um, in the middle of a whole rollercoaster of emotions and she's gonna be getting mad at you for things that she really doesn't mean to get mad at you for. And so really just being kind of like not a rock, because sometimes that's frustrating too.

Like if you are not feeling anything because you are scared of. Adding weight to her already. Large pile of emotions. Sometimes it's easier to just like agree with what she's feeling and validate it and say like, I'm feeling this too. You're not alone. Does that make sense? Yes. No, I love that. Yeah, I think that's great.

And so if there was anything that, with anything we talked about today that you could go back and have a redo, is there anything that you would've done differently? I think for sure, just like learning how to actually be open enough to receive, and so learning how to actually soften up and be comfortable with showing up vulnerable and messy and imperfect.

I wish I had started doing that earlier in my pregnant, well, as soon as I, I mean, I didn't know any difference, so I mean, I, I shouldn't. There's no regret cuz obviously I was doing everything I could. I was doing the best that I could with what I knew. But in a future pregnancy and um, situation like that, I would just like let myself show up Messy.

I love that. And you know, that's actually exactly how I've been doing right now. I'm like, you know what? Cuz I suffer from that. People pleasing and perfectionism. And I'm like, Nope, I can't let it out because it's not perfect. But now I'm going with the. Who cares if it's messy, it's gonna be messy. And eventually it'll, but that's just the process.

That's the process. Yes, exactly. And you have to like, you have to start somewhere. Right. And I think the other thing too, like I said, a lot of people pleaser, a lot of people pleasers also, um, are striving for perfection and overachieving. So something that I tend to tell myself, and I don't know if this is helpful for anyone else, is that like my b plus.

Are, oh, how do I word this? Like my, my b plus efforts might be just as good as someone's like a plus efforts. Yes. So like, I don't need to keep raising like I'm my toughest critic and like nobody else is going to have the bar that high for me. It's only me that's raising the bar. So again, just kind of that permission to not be perfect all the time.

And, yeah, it's hard. It, I'm working on it in literally every aspect of my life. Yeah, I feel like we're always a work in progress. Like we're always just trying to get a little bit better, even if it's just inch by inch. Yep. Yeah. As long as the way is forward. Like how do you, how do you eat an elephant? And like the answer to that is one bite at a time.

Right? You're not going to wake up tomorrow and. Completely be healed from your people pleasing tendencies and show up perfectly and perfect. It's gonna be like one step at a time. And so maybe that means letting your mother-in-law come over when you have dishes in the sink. Maybe it's something so little like that, right.

She probably won't even notice. Exactly. We're the ones that's gonna notice that nobody else . Yeah. Before I, I just wanna make sure that I made like my previous point about actually like feeling the sensations in the body clear. So, Back to that example, like if you were to allow your mother-in-law to come over and you had dishes in the sink, like I said, you can't think your way out of things.

You have to literally like feel it in the body. And so that means actually finding safety. And that can look like, I mean, there's tons of different ways to actually find safety in your body, but the one thing is giving yourself space and not trying to fix it, but also just noticing and being conscious of your breath.

That's a great way to actually reconnect to your body and even some like self holding. Techniques can be really soothing. So whether that's like giving yourself a hug or even like holding your own hands, it sounds so silly, but it just kind of shows your body. It tells your body that, okay, I'm safe here.

Cuz that's literally what the nervous system is constantly asking. It's just wanting to know if, if your body, you are safe. So, Right. And I can't think of the article right now, but I've, I've seen there's like scientific studies that revolve around what you just said, like hugging yourself, holding your own hand, just giving yourself that love, even though it's not from somebody, it still gives you that same feeling.

Yeah. Because the body doesn't know that it's not anybody like Yeah, exactly. The other thing, this one, it seems so elementary, but when we think back to like primal times where our bodies were constantly on the lookout for. Threats. The threat was maybe being eaten by a bear, and obviously we're not experiencing that type of threat anymore.

But our, our body can't tell a difference between getting eaten by a bear and our mother-in-law coming over and judging us for a dirty sink. It's the same kind of stress. So one super easy thing to do is actually just orient to your surroundings, and all that means is like just slowly and very consciously looking around.

Looking up, down behind you to the sides, and they're just like ruling out that there's no threats, there's no bears. And again, that just kind of can soothe your nervous system and let yourself just take that deep breath. Oh, that's beautiful. I think that is a great exercise for anybody to do. And then you can just tell yourself like any environment, Yes, and just tell yourself like, I'm safe.

Like there's no direct. And literally that verbal affirmation is powerful. I am safe right now. Mm-hmm. , and I'm passionate about this, so I keep going forever. I love it. But that verbal affirmation of I am safe here and like that self hug and all those things, that's really how you can start, um, deepening the confidence with yourself to, instead of always relying on external sources for validation and stuff, that's when you can actually.

Leaning on yourself as your biggest cheerleader, cuz that's really what we need to start doing. Yes. Oh, is building that self trusts and confidence. It's hard. I love everything you just said. Like you touched on so many points that I think everybody's gonna resonate with . Um, I hope it lands for whoever's listening.

So yeah, definitely this has been. Oh, I agree. Well I know there's gonna be people that are gonna wanna connect with you cuz you're just amazing. Um, so can you tell my listeners like where they can find you or the best way to contact you? Absolutely. So I am at Becoming dot Mama Bear on Instagram or my website is ww dot becoming Mama Bear dot.

I'm on Instagram often, so DMing me on there is probably the easiest way to connect with me. But you can also email me at hi becoming mama bear.com. And I'm currently in the process of revamping some of my current offers. But, um, I currently and in the future will be offering virtual support. Um, so all of my offerings are virtual and it doesn't matter.

You don't need to live in Canada. You don't need to be in the cold winter like I am. You can be in like sunny tropical Florida or something and we can still connect. So , I love that. And also, I just wanna put in there like on your website, I just suggest anybody go there and get your, you first master. Oh my gosh.

I watched it and after I did, I was like, oh, this was so amazing. Like, I felt so good after I watched it. So anyway, use that. So yeah, my, I'll just touch on that. So the you first masterclass is for, uh, the Overgiving mama or Mama to be, it doesn't matter if you are pregnant or um, a mom to three, it's gonna be helpful for you.

And we're talking about all the things Petra and I just kind of discussed here. Going in more depth and talking about how to actually support your own nervous system. How to start putting yourself first, how to just really start, um, filling your own cup without feeling like you are letting your family suffer because of it.

Because I think that's one of the hardest things is we think, oh, if I put myself first, then someone else is going to, um, see a consequence from that. And that's so far from the truth, right? You can't fo you can't pour from an empty cup. . As cliche as it is, it's true . Nope, it is true. Yeah. All right. Well thank you so much for taking time outta your day to come have this chat with me.

Thank you, Petra. It was so much fun. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode As much as I enjoyed creating it. Please subscribe so you don't miss any of the discussions on all of these hot topics. Head over to my Instagram at the Birth Junkie podcast to let me know what you thought about this episode, and I can't wait to see you here next week.

Until next time, bye.