The Invisible Struggle-Navigating PostpartumDepression & Psychosis

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I had an incredible conversation with Laurie Bedard who is a certified clinical counselor, founder and director of LJB counseling services, part-time psychology professor, and mother to 5 boys.

In this episode, we chat about how we don't like to seem like we're not okay or that we can't handle it all. But the truth is that we're human and sometimes we need help, not just physically but mentally.

Join us as we tread through the realities of having postpartum depression or psychosis and how our family can help us through this sensitive time.

This episode hit home for me because when I was freshly postpartum, I had intrusive thoughts about my baby dying and it being because of me.

Here's some topics we touch on throughout our conversation:

✨  Feeling alone in the darkness
✨  Snap Back to Reality, breaking the stigma of the post-baby body expectations and we discuss the emotional toll of postpartum struggles.
✨  It's okay to not be okay: Seeking help is a sign of strength, and you're not alone in this journey.
✨  Prioritize self-care, navigate postpartum with grace and kindness


Connect with Laurie  ⤵️

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LJBandassociates

Website:  https://linktr.ee/ljbandassociates

Email: ljbedard.lb@gmail.com

Transcript:

Today I have a special guest from Montreal and she is a certified clinical counselor who is the founder and director of L J B and Associates Counseling Services.

So, uh, she is also a part-time psychology professor, a mother of five boys. Who are now grown men and they're now between the ages of 20 and 27. And you are a blended family, so that is awesome. I love that. And you love, of course, your family hiking, snowboarding, and riding. That's amazing. I love all those things too.

Um, so yeah, if you would just care to take it away so we can dive into your story. I would love it. Well, I, you know, as you mentioned, I have five boys. Um, the oldest is 27. Uh, I, my entire life, Really thought about like being a mom was the thing. You know, I remember, uh, in grade nine, a teacher asked, what do you see yourself?

You know, what is in your future? And I was like, and all my wisdom of a 15 year old was like, I am going to be married at the age of 19 and I will have my first child at 20 and then I'm going to have like three children. I just. Mom was always central to me and I worked with kids from a very young age. I coached, I did a lot of things.

I went into education. I taught being a mom was going to be the best thing in my life. And so when I found that I was pregnant at 26 years old, I was so like, I can't describe to you how excited and I wrote, My child letters, uh, every day. And I talked about beautiful, how excited I was and all the good fun we were gonna have and the adventures we were gonna go on.

Um, and um, I used to watch videos of mo other moms like giving birth and I would weep and I would cry. It was just so much. You know, love and, and um, and then I had my first child, and his name is Gregory, um, at the age of 26, and I almost a couple of hours after he was born. It literally, for me, the experience was that it was as if somebody turned the light switch off.

So everything went from, you know, The birth went really well. The actual event, I, I, I was 14 minutes, uh, pushing three pushes this gorgeous baby, perfectly healthy, eight pounds, six ounces, 22 and a quarter inches long. Um, but it's like something shut down inside of me, had no idea what was happening. I wanted to be excited.

I wanted to have those same feelings I had when I watched. The, the, the videos of the women giving birth. I cognitively knew that this is what I had wanted, but there was a part of me that was just in darkness, like it, um, it's called depression with me, but it really was anxiety, like extreme anxiety. Uh, so I'm already keeping a secret now.

So I have my son, everybody's telling me. How happy this is the, the best moment, the best time of your life. And I'm smiling and I'm going along with it, and I'm starting to have intrusive thoughts. Um, I don't wanna be a mother. I don't know why I ever thought this would be a good thing for me, but I go along with it and people, when I did finally say something to, um, my spouse, this was about two weeks after.

I had him around Christmas on the 22nd of December. I got out of the hospital on the 24th and he wasn't, I wanted to breastfeed. So that, that's, that's a big thing and that I'll come back to, I wanted to breastfeed and he wasn't latching on and there were really no resources. Everything was shut down, like there were no resources.

We have a lot of, uh, programs. In Quebec, in Montreal, like hotlines for, for new mothers to call and get help. But it was Christmas Eve, so, and then it was Christmas and then it was Boxing Day. And then, so three days later, I ha I'm giving him the bottle because I want him to eat. I'm panicked. I don't know where I, the fantasy was, I was gonna be breastfeeding him.

So about two weeks later, I remember I, I said to my spouse, like, I, I think we should, we should give him up for adoption. And I hadn't ever expressed any of these feelings. And so he was just concerned about that. And then I, I started to tell him a little, I only let him know a little bit about what was really going on in my, in my mind.

Um, but the. The, the intrusive thoughts kept, you know, were becoming more and more o they were coming more often. I would have to get up in the morning and basically put 'em in a stroller and walk. I couldn't stay in the house. I just walk, walk, walk. Then one night, about a month in, so I was pretty depressed at the time because of the anxiety.

I felt like I shouldn't be his mother because I didn't, I didn't love him enough and I, I didn't know how to care for him and that he'd be better off with someone else. I'm keeping all these things a secret as driving down, uh, two-way street, and I just had the, the thought that came to my mind is that I should drive into the car that's coming this way.

Uh, and that was such a strong impulse mm-hmm. That it scared me into them telling one of my sisters. And once I started to open up about it, it was almost like the floodgates opened and I had, it was just a, a difficult feeling, like even physically, it was just like my chest was always tight. I. Had no hope.

I didn't understand what was happening. I felt like a failure because I couldn't breastfeed. I felt like a failure cuz I didn't feel the way I. What was sold to me mm-hmm. About how I'm supposed to just still be beautiful the day after. And like, oh, and the beautiful and, um, I wasn't that person. So I had a lot of shame.

A lot of shame. And I told my sister, one of my sisters, I, my, uh, that I was feeling down and she came over to check on me unannounced. And when she came over, I was actually in the basement screaming. Um, I, I went and closed the door and I felt like I had some physical darkness that I needed to, and I was just screaming like, but it's a kind of a blur to me.

So that's what I've been told. But I, I know I used to do that sometimes to cope, and so basically she called my other sister and they came and. Literally put me in the backseat of their car and sat on top of me because I was refusing to go and brought me to the hospital. Um, and so I wasn't admitted to the hospital because I made a couple of promises that I was gonna take medication.

I was gonna follow through, I was gonna follow through on my, uh, my, uh, follow ups and, and I did. And when I started taking my medication, the light switch went back on. Oh, wow. It took about, wasn't immediate. Took about three weeks. Mm-hmm. Until I felt like myself. I did not have any suicidal ideation. I wanted to be with my son.

I wanted to care for him. I was really happy about being a mother. And so after six months on the medication, you go off the medication. That's, that's the way it worked. That's the way it worked in 19 95, 19 96. We didn't know what we know now. Um, and I sort of put that in the past, um, and kind of moved on with life.

Mm-hmm. And then I ended up getting a divorce and getting remarried. And I did not wanna have more children at that point out of fear. Right. Um, but did research and all the research said, well, if you have it for your first child, you're less likely to have it for your second birth. And that's not, that's not what we know now.

If you have it in your first birth, you're more likely to have it. So decided to go ahead and get pregnant again. And, um, had twins as well. So again, the, the, the lead up to it was, there was stress involved, but I was again, really excited. Um, you know, the, you know, when you have one that you're so in love with, the question when you have your second babies is like, how am I gonna love them as much?

Right? Oh yeah. Um, and that's where I was, that's what I was feeling. That's what I was thinking. And I was thinking, okay, well I've been through it before. If it happens, I'm gonna, I'll be okay. I know, I, I know it's not cuz I'm a bad person or a bad mother. Like I said, this time it took a little longer for it to kick in two or three days getting home from the hospital.

But then I, I, I knew this time, I knew when it happened, I took myself to the emergency right away. Uh, and. I explained to the doctor how I was feeling. I explained my history and I was told it was the baby blues. Just go home, rest, right. With a, with a, with another baby and just rest and it's all gonna be okay.

It's normal. And this was after you had your twins? Okay. After I had my twins, okay, and I had had the conver and I had the conversation, I told the doctor like, I know what this is. I experienced it. It's the same feeling. It basically happened for me like right away. And I was sent home and told, you know, just give it a couple of months.

Everybody, all women feel like this. Uh, um, uh, so, That increased my anxiety. Hmm. Uh, but at this time I knew enough to ask her support. So, um, my mother ended up coming to stay with me for a while and just hoping that with the support and extra help, maybe you, it would be better having my mother there would be better.

Uh, But I started this time on top of the depression. I had some psychosis. So, uh, one point I was convinced I saw cockroaches, uh, under the skin of my babies and I wanted, I was gonna get a match and burn, burn them out cuz there was no other way to do it. And I, they were, it was so real to me. There were cockroaches and, and my mom was staying with me and ended up in emergency.

With the same doctor. Wow. Yeah. I am just so shocked that you, okay, so you told this doctor like, I know what this is. I've experienced it before, and they just sent you home like it was nothing. I mean, thank goodness you knew what it was, and you knew that you needed support. I'm just thinking somebody that doesn't.

Have that capability to reach out for support, what would happen to them? Like, oh my gosh, that's so crazy to me. What happened with a, with a single mom? Without a partner? Without a family, without exactly a, a financial means to, like, I've asked myself that question a lot. Um, uh, you know, we're supposed to, we have a really good social support in, in Quebec.

It's. We pay high taxes, but we have a lot of programs. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. We, I get, I got a year off of maternity leave with every birth. We have people that are involved. Um, so for new moms, you can get, a nurse can come and check on you, like through the, through our community, um, clinics. It's very good, but again, you have to know what to say or you don't have to know.

You have to like sort of advocate for yourself. And also, I was 32. Uh, no, I was, I was like older though when I had them. I wasn't 18, 19. Imagine like, you know, a 19, 20 year old. So, um, yeah. So after that visit, after the, my mom, my mom was like, yeah, she literally wanted to bird her babies, right? Mm-hmm. I got to see a psychiatrist right away.

Surprise, surprise. Um, it could have been a, it could have been really, really bad. Yeah. So then once you went to the psychiatrist, what happened after that medication? Mm. So I was put on remon, which I didn't tolerate very well. Uh, but see, and the, and the, both times I had the postpartum depression, I was given medication.

And medication is, it can be very effective, but on its own is not the long-term solution. Right. And. You know, I ended up going back and doing my master's degree in counseling, in psychology, and, and I'm a counselor and a psych professor. But, uh, what I do know is that you, the best outcomes have to do with medication and talk therapy.

Talk therapy alone. If it's strictly a hormonal thing, it's gonna help, but. It's not gonna get you all the way there. You're still gonna feel the anxiety. It might work things out, medication alone. Well, it's gonna take away the physical anxiety and the, the exhaustion and everything, but, and then women who are, who experience postpartum depression are at a higher risk of having depression and anxiety after their births, which is kind of like if you have diabetes when you're pregnant.

You're at higher risk of having diabetes. Same thing with depression. I didn't know any of this. Um, so I went home, started taking my medication. I still had some of the depression, but I didn't have the psychosis. And then my son who, uh, one of the recommendations from the doctor, I was also like, Do you, is there somewhere you can go where it's sunny and warm?

Because my first child was in December on the 22nd, the twins were on January 11th. So we're in the dead of winter. It's dark. And so we say, well, my parents are going to Florida, so I'm gonna go with my parents to Florida. And uh, we got there and my, one of the babies, his lungs collapsed. Oh my goodness.

Yeah, so I'm in the middle of this pretty, you know, deep depression and the twin, and his name is Mark. He was three months old. Uh, he was in, ended up in Florida in intensive care. Um, intubated a whole nine yards. Wow. And that's a blur. That was like a month, uh, because he was in intensive care for. Two weeks, and then he was just transferred to another floor because he didn't know how to suck anymore.

It, it's not, it's not a natural thing, which I didn't know either. And that's, this is one of the reasons why I had a hard time. So he's okay. He, he was a month in the hospital and he's a fine strapping young man now. He had something that we hear about a lot now called R S V. Okay, actually, right? Mm-hmm. I didn't know about it.

Had never heard about it at the time, right? So we get home and, you know, between the, the medication and just being put in a position where not put in, but being in a, in a situation where all of my 100% of my focus was on this little baby. Um, we got back and, um, you know, Things seemed to be okay. Um, but I did have after that bouts of depression that would just, you know, so there wasn't a lot of information.

And now if we, if I, you know, in retrospect, I needed to be more educated and I, I don't put that on myself, but we need to educate women. And, and men. So partners, we need to educate people about like the truth about pregnancy and birth. Like I had no idea that it was, I was not gonna want to go to the bathroom after I had a baby.

Right. Because it's all the, oh, there's no, it's painful. Yeah. And if you don't know that that's coming, And you're already tired. And you know, I had, I was lucky with my first birth. It was an easy physical birth and the twins were a C-section. Mm-hmm. But like, there's no, there's not a lot of education. Yeah.

And I feel like you're speaking my language here because that is what I want to get out into the world. It's like, why is not? Why is this information not mainstream? Like there's so many things that are mainstream, like, oh, get this fancy stroller, get this, you know, bassinet that moves without you having to do anything.

Like, instead of making that the focus, why don't we focus on, you know, maternal health, maternal mental health. Like all the things that we should really be nurturing because it's true. Everybody's so like, oh my gosh, you know your baby. When can I come see the baby? And then that's like the first week. And then after that, boom, you're on your own like word, everybody go.

That's, that's the way it felt for me anyways. And it seems like that's a common theme. And in the first week when, when everyone's coming to see your baby, I don't even know if they look at you to see. You, your face. I mean, I know how I felt and I'm pretty sure that it showed on, on me that I was, uh, not really there.

I was, you know, I, for lack of a better word, really, like a zombie and not myself, because I'm a very animated and I lo even now it's like, My niece came over, we had this big family gathering for Easter, and my niece is like, where's the, where's the baby lover? And like, everybody just gives me their babies.

I love babies. Oh, I love it. Right? And nobody noticed that this behavior from me was really not, I was very standoffish. I did the basics that I had to do. I fed 'em, I cleaned them, I took care of them, and I took care of the basics. But I was really struggling and, uh, it's was like kind of a big blur. I mean the, it's not funny, but my sisters like to tell how they had to sit on me, you know, had the baby and then sitting on me and dragging me.

And then how, eventually how I went into counseling. Um, and so 20, I was just telling you like all this time later, and I'm still having clients, Who are, I've had a baby nine months ago and they're just daring to tell me that they've been depressed for nine months and I've been seeing them for three months because of the shame.

Yeah. Um, around, and, you know, And I say to them like, if you fell or if you were hit by a car, you wouldn't go hide in your house and hide it from people. You'd say, no, I need to get to the hospital. I need to take care of this cause I have to get home and take care of my baby. Mm-hmm. But when it's the invisible mental illness on top of society's expectations of women, It's, it's like this barrier that I see now in 2023 is still very much there.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, it, it, it really gets to me sometimes, like, I really have to remind myself that we have maid strides. Uh, and I always, you know, I make sure to check with my family members when I find out like my nieces are having babies and I'm like, It's okay to not be okay when you're a mom. Yeah. First of all, even if everything's wonderful with you, you are gonna be so tired, right?

It's okay to say I'm tired. Can you just come while I have a little nap? Everybody says, just don't do anything when your baby's sleeping and, and take a nap. Well, yeah, but it is the house and everything like so. It just, it still affects me that there are so many women, brilliant, amazing, wonderful, highly intelligent women who will go in the closet and feel shame on top of depression, on top of anxiety.

Um, and it's all because we don't really. We don't make it okay to talk about, I think, you know. Yeah. And. I think you're making an extremely valid point is we don't make it okay because we're just expected to kind of bounce back and get our bodies back and be this happy, you know, beautiful family, which of course it's a happy and beautiful time.

You know, you created this amazing life and it's beautiful, but. It doesn't always feel that way, and I just appreciate your vulnerability and sharing your journey with us, because that's not easy. You know, it takes time to even be able to share that because I'll be very like, honest and uh, vulnerable myself right now, I went through, I didn't go through psychosis, but I definitely went through postpartum depression and to the point where, I would have thoughts of what if my baby died right now?

And just like, I didn't even understand where it was coming from. I was like, why am I thinking that right now? What if I, what if I tripped and fell on my baby and my baby died? Like these, I didn't understand why, but I had so many of these thoughts and I would just shake it off and say like, oh my gosh, why am I thinking this?

Like, I don't want my baby to die. I love my baby, but it's just, I. You don't try to have those thoughts, they just come in. It's those intrusive thoughts and you know, I think it's because all we, all these hormonal shifts that we're experiencing on top of the pressures of being, you know, bouncing back to what we were before, but I hate that word so much because we will never.

Be the same Once we have a baby, whether it's our first or our fifth, we're forever changed. Yeah, I was gonna say, there's no real bouncing back, but I mean, there could, there can be a bouncing forward, but there's no way once you have that baby, and it's, it's funny because I still have this conversation with my husband, uh, when we're having a contentious discussion.

And I will point out to him, and he knows it. It's true, and it's not his fault, but I want, but he's aware there's this invisible burden that women carry. Okay? And it's hard to, you can't point it out. But here's the thing, even when they're older, they care. I'm not trying to take away from men. I have five boys, and I have no doubt that they're gonna be amazing fathers, but, They're just things that they don't think about because they haven't been conditioned to and they don't think it's their responsibility.

So when you're trying to work a full-time job, you're, you have small kids, you're expected to bounce back your career, pregnancy, body, um, go to the gym, work out, keep your friends, right, gotta keep your social life, uh, look after your parents, maybe because they're getting a bit older. And, um, you still know what time the kids have to be picked up when they have a play date.

And, and I would say to my husband, like, D did you organize ever one time in our entire relationship a play date? No, it's not an attack. I want you to understand that this, this is invisible load that women carry. Not always, but most of the time we carry this invisible load that we have to be. Perfect, perfect mother.

Then we have to be there pleasing our husband, making sure, you know, he's happy, uh, that we need to be strong warriors. Right. We need to be, uh, I mean, how mm-hmm. The nine to five day was set up for single parents where mother stayed home and father went out to work, right? Yeah. Mother stayed home so father could go from nine to five.

And not worry. But now the way it's evolved is women are expected to work the nine to five if they're working and then work the 24 hour shift like with the kids. Um, so there's so much pressure on women I find maybe even a little more than there was 27 years ago. Because social media, oh my goodness, yes.

I mean, at the very least, I didn't have that. But um, what's really important I think, is that women understand what happens when your entire, everything changes. When your body changes, you're giving birth to a life. And you know, it's almost like it can be like a shock. You think you know what to expect.

But you just push this human being out of your body or have it the human being taken out of your body. And if you haven't thought about your mental health before, um, if you are pregnant and you're listening to this, you know, really just what I wanna make sure to just, I don't wanna scare women. And I think, and it, and it's the way I raised my kids too.

Awareness, not fear. Exactly. You may you, hopefully you will never experience this. And most women don't, but a lot of women do. And it's just about being aware. Mm-hmm. You know, don't, please don't fear it and don't fear motherhood. It's hard, but at the end of the day, you know it's worth it. But be aware that you have to put yourself first.

And you have to be willing to share with people if you're suffering. Um, yeah. And I think that's the hardest part because if we look at the roles, traditionally the husband is, you know, he's just the one who takes care of like our finances. He's the, the breadwinner traditionally, and then we're the nurturers.

So it's hard when we're trying to play these different roles. And like you said, on social media, we see all these beautiful, perfect family photos. They're perfectly posed, they're all matching outfits. And we see that and it's like, oh my gosh, what am I doing wrong? I need to be here, but I'm not. And so we create this false like sense of identity that isn't really us, and it's really hard to push past that.

But we need to, we need to normalize and bring awareness to all these issues that were kind of swept under the rug, you know? Because why should we be suffering in silence? It doesn't make any sense at all, but it is kind of something that we've always done. Mm-hmm. Twenties in the thirties, in the forties, in the fifties.

And, and think about this in the history, you know, of psychology. If a woman went to the doctor in 1950 and told the doctor that she was experiencing anxiety, she would be sent home and diagnosed this hysterical hysteria. So, You know, if we wanna like, just look even evolutionary wise, why do we keep it?

It's because we've been trained. My mother, my grandmother, my great-grandmother, were not even allowed to say if they were depressed, they just went back to work and had another baby. And then over and over and over again. And if they dared say something about it, they were not listened to or they were, you know, oh, you're, you know, you're being hysterical.

There is a reason why that word triggers me. Or, you know, like, calm down. Please don't tell me to calm down. I, I, I want to feel the way I want to feel like. So there's this big history. You know, and it's, it's passed down to us also. Um, just like trauma is, is generational trauma. Well, think about your great, great great grandmother or your great-grandmother, was she allowed to say she was depressed, that she was having intrusive thoughts.

There's, I guarantee you, if women had postpartum depression, that they were having the exact same thoughts as you and I were. But what did they do? They just carried on. And so we do impose that on ourselves as well. Um, and that's, that's the important thing is I think people need to understand is it has nothing to do with how strong you are.

It's not the weak women that go through postpartum depression, just like it's not weak people that experience depression. It's a combination. It's a bio psychosocial. So on the, on the other side of the hormones, once I started experiencing depression and going to therapy and not just taking medication, I learned a lot.

Uh, you know, there were, like, once I learned a lot, I would, I could look back and say, of course I was gonna have postpartum depression, you know? Why wouldn't I look at this path? Mm-hmm. So I think a lot needs to be like just a part of my, um, my practice. I do one-on-one counseling, but I also do workshops.

I do psychoeducational workshops. Um, that's the teacher in me. You, you can't just, it's there. Yeah. I love that it's, Yeah, it's not something I do. It's something I am. Um, and so it's, I probably really prefer that. I love giving workshops. Um, so people have me in these days. It's really to help them understand and how to best support their employees with who are having anxiety, because there's a lot of missed days.

And, you know, since the pandemic, I think that. Institutions have had to deal with it because it's there and they can't just be like, you know, oh, well, you know what? Suck it up and bring it in. It's just too many people, right? They can't, that approach was not working, so now it's like, it's still intrinsically selfish, but I don't care.

They wanna know how can I keep my, um, employees or the people, or my students happy so that the bottom line is being met. Okay. I can help you with anxiety, I can help you with, um, women when they come back from work, uh, from, um, you know, maternity leave. Great. I can help you with, with all those things. So, um, that's what I really love to do is to help people in positions of power as well.

Understand, and then how, and then, you know, be able to support. Women and people in general, um, just by having more knowledge. Yeah, I love that. And I'm just curious, is there ever a point where you have, um, the women come in when they need help or with their partners? Do you have a lot of those? Uh, actually they're just doing it alone most of the time.

Yeah, they are. Uh, a lot of times it's like, I have to encourage them to include their partners at home. Uh, and you know what? I would say a lot of women, once they allow themselves to be vulnerable, like in that space of that, in that area, they mostly have very positive experiences with their partner.

Cause we do shut our men out too a lot of times. And it's just like, ah, I'll handle it. It's like mm-hmm. Okay. And so sometimes it's a gift to allow them, but it's kind of like we have to, we have to give them a language that we have that they don't, you know, and they have a language that we don't, so it's, we have to teach each other.

Um, and so I, I have to say, when they've wanted to include their spouse, it. It's really been beneficial from, you know, I'm just offhand, I can't think of anyone that came in and was like, oh, that was a disaster. It was like, oh, I'm so glad. I had, um, I had a client who was an RC m p officer, like she was a badass woman.

She was strong, she was in charge of, uh, Like escorting our pri, our prime ministers, like she was, but she had to have a certain presence about her in this male dominated world. And so she started coming to see me and her main issue was being vulnerable. It, it was like actually dangerous for her to be vulnerable at work.

Right? She had to, and after a bunch of sessions, I think we worked together for about six months, but she was, she was one of those people, it's just like, oh, you want me to do this? Okay, I'm gonna do it. Like just all in. She was a hundred percent in, and she did amazing things. After she started a blog and she talked about her postpartum depression, she made, she brought it into her workplace and made it a space where women could talk about it.

Uh, you know, but until she decided, or, or until she realized that it was okay to not be okay, and that there's different places in our life, right? We have our work self and our, you know, our, uh, our siblings self and our, you know, she was kind of like, no, this is, this is, touches all parts of me. There's, I can't keep them separate.

So she just brought everybody into her world. It was really amazing to see. Um, and you're not supposed to tell people you're depressed when you're an RC m p officer, right? So just being yourself I, I find is, is the most incredible thing most of us can do. You know, we, you be yourself, you tell your story, and even if you help one person exactly.

Yeah. And that's, that's the whole thing because we don't, we don't know what we don't know. So when we do hear something and learn something new, oh my gosh, it's amazing. It opens up this whole world for us that we didn't even know existed. And so I'm curious if a person, going back to the partner aspect, if a person did come in with their partner, how would you suggest.

That the partner could help them through this, help the person dealing with this depression or psychosis or whatever they're dealing with. Mm-hmm. Like, how do you think they could support them in the best way possible? Um, I think like, getting really technical. I, I, um, I'm not trained to do couples therapy, right?

So, but just what I would say is, number one, validate. How they're feeling. Please don't ever say, but you should count your blessing. Just look how lucky we are. And I know people mean well and partners in particular, um, or, uh, other things. I've heard it like when my clients come back and it's like, I can't help you cuz I don't understand.

I'm, I've never been through it. I'm not a woman. It's like, okay, but can you understand pain? Can you understand deep, dark pain? Right. That's what I need you to understand, that that's nothing about being a woman. So I think it's Val really validate and, and let your partner lead. But ask the questions, how can I help you?

Because how your partner can be of help you is different than how my partner can help me. I need space. I need. Like when I'm in it, I don't want to be held, whereas, so say, how can I help you? How can I help you? Would you like me to go with you to your doctor's appointments? Uh, would you like me to, um, take on another feeding or do you wanna just sit and I can hold you while you cry?

Um, ask your partner what she needs from you. And sometimes she may not know and that's okay. Just being there and letting her know, like I think number one is like, okay, you're not, you're not alone here. I know you might feel alone, but I am here with you. I know that you're a wonderful person and that it has nothing to do with your moral values, and we're gonna get through this and just let your partner lead, but ask the questions.

Oh man, I think that's beautiful. I love that. And so I have a question for you, um, regarding your experience. And I'm gonna preface this question. I only ask this because, you know, at this point in your life, you're more experienced than you were before, and you've learned things along the way. So if you could have a redo, would there be anything that you would've done differently?

That is an excellent question and it's very difficult to answer. Mm-hmm. Um, because the way I've come to think about my life is that I could not change anything. Mm-hmm. It's that the whole ripple effect, right. It's not just, it wasn't just hormones, it came from trauma in my childhood that was never addressed.

Um, it came from the way I was raised and how I felt in inside, inside of my family. It came from so many things. So if I had to do a redo, I think that I would have to go back and choose different parents and choose different experiences, and it's hard for some people to hear that. I think. If I could change things without changing who I am right now and without changing the fact that I have these boys that I absolutely adore, then I would make a lot of changes.

Right? Uh, I would probably have sought more mental health counseling before I got pregnant, and I may have sought mental health counseling while I was pregnant. Um, just in, in an inquisitive way, are there things that I should know about? Can you help me through this fear of being a good mother? Um, my relationship is not going well with my partner.

I don't know if I'm gonna be with them long term. Can we talk about that in here? I have doubts about, you know, if I'm gonna be a good mother because of what I saw. Like I would've sought counseling because I needed it in retrospect. I could have been getting counseling at 14 and 15 and 16 years old.

That might've helped with how I reacted to the hormonal hormonal imbalance. Um, so just having that education, like educating myself, um, to what, what, what, what puts people or makes some people more susceptible than others. For postpartum depression, but just depression or just anxiety? Yeah. I think if I had known those things, I would've blamed myself less if I had known how organic and how physical and how much was outside of my control.

Um, so like, I think early counseling, prenatal counseling, but not like prenatal counseling, like how do I physically be a mom? Mm-hmm. Prenatal counseling, like. How do I emotionally be a mom? When I was just this single person who didn't have any responsibilities in my life. I was already immature and I was in a denial about a lot of things.

Like I think, uh uh, somebody who's really maybe trained in that, maybe that's a whole new area. We need to train counselors just for that. Mm-hmm. You know, when you're going for your Lamaze classes and all of that, like, you know what, here's, let's get some mental, let's get some, uh, I wouldn't call it mental health counseling, but like, let's get some psychoeducational, um, workshops about mental health.

Yeah, and like also I asked that question because just in case somebody is listening that is possibly dealing with, you know, um, having these feelings during pregnancy and they realize they're having these feelings. Before they even give birth or right after they give birth, like maybe you could, you know, give them some advice that they might not have thought about to act on that might help them, that you wish you could have done.

Obviously we can't go back in time, you know, we don't have time machines, but I, in, in my hopes for asking that question is that we could be possibly putting a resource out there that just somebody didn't think about yet. And. Thank you so much for sharing. Like I love all those tips and especially the way you talked about birth education.

You can go for all the birth education, but normally the birth education courses are not focused on anything with your mentality, your mindset, um, feel like it should be incorporated just like no matter what, because a lot of what. Happens in birth is surrounded by your mindset, and a lot of us have fear going into childbirth.

So I think it's important to think about where is that fear coming from? Why do I have this fear? Does it come from movies, does it come from my family? Like, and then just working on that, I feel like that would help. Just kind of help us hone into ourselves so we can think a little deeper. Then how do I do these hip squeezes, you know, during my labor or whatever the question is.

It's like, and make us realize that it, our life and our, and our life to come as a parent is not a TV show where. You push for five minutes and then you're at home and the baby's clean and, and ev you know, I think you're right. I think we as women, because it's natural, right? That, that, that word natural is really where the snag is.

Mm-hmm. Um, part of it is natural, but a part of it is not. Like now, one day you're responsible for yourself. Most of us don't even do a great job taking care of ourselves. Right. Right. If we're honest. If we're honest, yeah. Whatever issues, you know, that's what I would say. Whatever issues you had before you got pregnant, my dear, you will have them after you're pregnant.

So put yourself first. Take care of your baby's mommy. Exactly. Take care of your baby's mommy. Go and see someone talk about it, even if it's like, like you said, where's that fear coming from? Well, duh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a, a life. Like, we think it should be natural and that this, this transition psychologically.

And some people, maybe it's like a cinch, honestly. Mm-hmm. But I would say most of us are somewhere in the middle of. What we see on social media and those of us that really suffer with postpartum depression, like I think most of us are in the middle where we feel wholly inadequate. Um, we just suck it up buttercup, and we just keep saying, well, you know, women have done this for years and years.

I should be able to do this. No. Yeah, it's, you know what, you know the whole, it takes a village like, Ask. Ask for help. Ask a woman that you know and trust with your vulnerability. Just say, am I supposed to be this afraid? Like, you know, like I have, like I said, my niece lives right near me and she has two little girls and I see her beating herself up.

Mm-hmm. And I see my younger self, I'm like, you know, I mean, none of this is gonna matter what. What grade they got in grade one. If they got a A, a, B, it's not gonna matter. Like Right. It's okay to tell somebody like I am. Tired. I am stressed out. I, uh, I need a break. Like a lot of times she'll be like, your favorite niece is driving me crazy.

She could use a visit. I'm like, I'll be right there cuz I'm, I'm right there. And I love spending time with her and I get to give her back. So yeah, it's like I'm in my grandma years, but I understand her and she still feels embarrassed to tell people or to tell me that she's tired. Yeah, she works, she works full-time.

Her kids. Her girls play hockey, baseball, gymnastics, like they are living the life, those kids. Mm-hmm. And she just takes it all on and all on. And I was like, you need to take time for you. Yeah. And I think it's a lot of times, you know, I can't speak for everyone, but you get this tunnel vision. And you can only see what is immediately around you.

And a lot of us need to like back up and look at the bigger picture. Mm-hmm. What really matters, what really matters to me. Not these grades, you know, it's not the perfect beautiful outfits we're wearing and matching beautifully clean house. Yes. Like, Yeah. That's what I say. Widen the lens sometimes. Yes, exactly.

You ask people to widen the lens and say, you know, elementary schools for learning to love reading and writing and being sociable and, you know, being happy and learning to the grades. I, I taught grade one. I understand. I had plenty of students who. Couldn't took a long time for them to learn how to read.

And the parents were like, oh my God, what am I doing wrong? And I'm like, it's okay. Because what we read is they should be reading like we, we read little tidbits, right? Instead of really learning something or having a workshop available to us. And I tell them like, You know, they can be writing their letters backwards until they're in grade three and they're like, really?

I thought they were dyslexic. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't go there. Yeah. Like, just let them bloom in their own ways and uh, yeah. I mean, if you think about things like that are associated with being a woman, though, menopause, I'll just bring that up because. It's important even for women who are young now, and you know, even if they feel they're not heard by their doctor or by their partner or by their family members, a lot of times I would go and say, you know, this is happening.

This is happening. And this is what I'm told. Yeah. It's just natural. Mm-hmm. I'm like, so is erectile dysfunction at a certain age? But like, we have Viagra, right? So can we. You know, is there something you could do for me? It's natural, but it's sucks. It's painful. Right, right. Um, and that's what we get a lot is women.

Yeah. It's natural, you know, post baby blues, it's normal. It's okay. Yeah. It's like I know what, what the blues are and I know this is something I've never experienced and it's scary, like, yeah. So, yeah, I, I think. I, I only hope that we, you know, this is a small pit, a small bit and, um, if it changes one person though, it's definitely worth it.

Like, if somebody hears this and says, I'm gonna call my sister and I'm gonna talk about this, or I'm gonna go see my therapist and I'm gonna talk about it, you know, I think exactly that would, that would, you know, be everything is worth it. Yeah. Nope. I totally agree. That's exactly my view on it completely.

And oh my gosh, I have just enjoyed this conversation. I feel like we could talk all day long know. I think, I think it's like, was it midnight yet? Oh, no, not yet here, but Oh, where you're at. That's right. We got, no, it's only, yeah, it's, no, I'm good. I'm good. They're mine are all grown so I don't have to get up in the morning to, to take care of somebody.

Yeah. That's like, yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on, and I would just love to share how people can get ahold of you, how they can come into contact with you. Oh, okay. Awesome. Um, if, if any of your listeners are from anywhere in Canada, um, they can, they can, uh, get ahold of me at LJ Ard. So that's L as in Laurie, J as in Joanne, Badard.

B E D A R d.lb laurie BADARD gmail.com. Okay. And on Instagram at Ljb Associates. So those are two ways to get in touch with me. I can do, uh, online counseling if they're in Canada, but I can do workshops. Anywhere, everywhere. And, uh, anybody who's interested in having someone come in and just educate, you know, staff members or, you know, that is, that's high quality, uh, uh, caring, you're putting into the people that are working for you.

So that's, that's where I can be reached. And, uh, I really thank you for having this podcast and, and making this a kind of a topic of discussion. That we can just talk about. And I just wanna say, um, I'm very grateful that I made it through and that you made it through. And there are a lot of women who don't.

Right. And I think it's important to keep those women and, and the children, you know, that may not have it through with their moms. I think it's important to keep, always keep them like, that's one reason I feel I'm just lucky. Smarter than those women. I'm not anything, but I just happen to be lucky that I made it through and uh, I would like, you know, everybody to really think about some of the women that didn't make it through, because a lot of the times there's just the stigma around it.

Mm-hmm. And that's a shame. Yeah. Gosh. And I'm happy you made it through too. Thank you for everything you're sharing and obviously I will link everything in the show notes so people can easily get ahold of you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am so grateful for you and sharing your story and your vulnerability and this is gonna help somebody.

This will Sure you, you help. People every day, you know, every time you put out a podcast. So thank you for that too. It it takes us all working together. Exactly. It's a group effort, team effort. Some more link. Look, the now we're a link. We're a link. And hopefully we can extend our, our link and, uh, make this thing that's something that we don't have to talk about anymore.

Exactly. All right. Well, Lori, thank you so much again. Thank you. It was great meeting you talking to you. You too. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode As much as I enjoyed creating it, please subscribe so you don't miss any of the discussions on. All of these hot topics, head over to my Instagram at the Birth Junkie podcast to let me know what you thought about this episode.