Dropping the cape to focus on your mental health in Postpartum

Listen Now!

Hey, you're listening to the Birth Junky podcast. Get ready to dive into all things Birth with me. We talk about all the hot topics from preconception to postpartum. I'm so excited for you to join me on this journey to realizing that we're all human. We all make mistakes and it's gonna be messy at times, and we're all just kind of figuring it all out as we go.

Now, if you're ready to hear raw, unfiltered in real life stories of struggles, triumphs, and learn a thing or two from parents and professionals alike, then come along as we navigate this thing called parent. Together to welcome back to the Birth Junkie podcast. Today I have a very special guest with me.

He's very near and dear to my heart. It is my stepdad Jerry Silva, and I'm gonna let him take it over and introduced himself a little. Well, thank you for that kind introduction, Miha. I really appreciate that. You also obviously, are very near dear to my heart. When you first asked me to come on board and share a little bit about mental health, suicide prevention and postpartum, I was just flattered.

I really was that you would invite me to do this, so this is special to me as well. and yeah, I've been in the mental health field now for as of January of this year. It makes it 30 years career for me in mental health, and I've been really blessed and fortunate to have served in so many different roles.

I, I mean, you talk about working in jails, inpatient units, outpatient therapy sessions, uh, emergency rooms. It's just been a career that I've been very fortunate and blessed to be a part of after all this time. I look back on it and I first got my start back in my undergraduate days at Fresno Pacific University.

I got my bachelor's degree in management in 1998, and after working in the labor management field for a while, I knew I really wanted to get more into counseling and mental health, and old professors kept calling me and saying, Jerry, you really need to get into. Back to graduate school and work on your master's degree.

And I'm like, dude, I . The last thing I wanna do is anymore schooling. It had taken so much of my time, it's very intense. And I thought, well, I just don't wanna do it. And they kept on me. I said, you know what? I'm gonna apply to graduate school. To see if I can get into a Master's program, but be honest with you, really hoping that I would get declined.

The last thing I wanted to do was anymore schooling. So I kept my word. I applied to graduate school at STIs Law State. I was living in Tracy at the time, and I got accepted into the graduate program there and I thought, dang. And, and I, what I remembered morning thing was, was my dad was so old school, he goes, mijo, whenever you start something you can't quit.

And I was like, Ugh, I've gotta actually gotta follow through with this. So, In May of 2004, I graduated from Stan State with my master's degree in social. and it was a grind. And I had professors then who said, Jerry, you really need to go pursue your PhD and become a doctor. I said, okay, that's it. Enough is enough.

That's enough schooling. I'm done. And I, but I knew then that my next step is, if I'm gonna do this, I really want to go all out. And the key in this field is to become a lone. Licensed clinician. So after several difficult years of graduate studies and earning my master's degree, we had to go through what's called 3,200 hours of clinical hours supervision where you, you see patients, you're supervised by a professional mentor, you begin to prepare for state licensing board exams.

And in April of 2010, I was extremely jazzed when I passed my state board exams, became a licensed clinical social worker, and over the years I had been in the mental health field. And then once you earn your license, you can not only continue and see patients on your own, you can actually ascend into management and leadership where you can take on clinicians of your own and become their supervisor.

So for several years now, I've been in this field. I've been. Part of great teams, I've been able to work with clinicians that are extremely experienced at what they do, and I've been lucky enough to go supervise student interns who've been graduate students themselves and been able to watch over them in their work and get them steered into the right direction as well.

So it's been special. It's been a career that's been so rewarding and I, although I do plan to probably retire in a few years. I don't see myself quitting and whether it's teaching, supervising, or being part of it because it's been such a wonderful career, and hopefully I can turn around and maybe share more of that with others.

There you go. Wow. Wow, . That's amazing. And I love this because I'm learning already more about you than I already knew, and I feel like I knew you really, really good . Um, but wow, 30 years. So obviously you have a lot of hands-on experience and I know obviously we've talked about how you've had experience with, um, women in postpartum and coming to you for that.

So, um, what was your experience with. You know, I'm so glad you asked that, Mia, because one of the areas where it became a, not only a, a great opportunity to serve professionally, but an area where I learned so much about was the seven years I served as an outpatient clinician in San Joaquin County Mental health department.

I work in the CalWORKs program. Where moms who had had become, you know, kind of struggling financially and needing a lot of help, they oftentimes were struggling emotionally and needed some counseling as a support. So the CalWORKs program would refer their clients to our program and I would begin to schedule them for outpatient therapy sessions.

So many either were pregnant. Had either had just maybe had given birth and now many of them were struggling emotionally, financially, spiritually, mental health wise as well, to say, I don't know what I'm doing here, Jerry. I'm struggling in every way possible and I'm having a lots of difficulty. Adjusting to my latest situation, which in postpartum many of my clients were sp uh, really experiencing severe symptoms of depression, severe symptoms of anxiety, weight, difficulty adjusting.

Some had very gone through, very traumatic. childbirth experiences. So it's not as if all this was one and done, they had given birth and they're good to go. I, I don't have to tell you that. I mean, I know you, just by that smile, I can tell you can relate to all of this. Mm-hmm. . And so now it's like, what do they do now?

So just in order to get back at a baseline where they can become stable and adjusted, managing all of the responsibilities of motherhood, they were having to come and see me and some of my coworkers just so they can. Therapy so they can begin to adjust to all of these new feelings and these new experiences about what do I do now because I have a newborn And they don't come with a set of instructions as you well know, so what am I gonna do now?

So, so yeah, tho those years and I'm seeing clients in that setting was just a great learning experience for me. And hopefully over the years I was able to lend some support and professional guidance to help them. So typically, how many times did you see these moms who were coming in with, you know, postpartum depression or even um, There's so many different, uh, mental health issues that they could have had.

I'm sure the range was immense. Yeah, you're right. It it, it was a lot a, we, we saw what we call, we, we used the, what we call the continuum or a spectrum. Our patients would come in, I'd have some more at the beginning end where they, they typically were more of the experience bombs. They might have had a child or two, and it was, might have been some struggles around adjusting and trying to manage.

The logistics. I've got two kids down and my husband's at work and more of the, the, maybe a support system where they, we can get that plugged in for them and they would be able to adjust a little better. So I, I typically would do a full hour to hour and a half intake where I try to get a full, comprehensive look at where they've been, where they are now, what their struggles are, and then we might set up anywhere from a three to six.

Therapy session format where they would come in, I would, uh, employ what we call cognitive behavioral therapy, where we would examine their thoughts, their moods, their feelings, stressors, events that might trigger some of their different emotions. So we'd look at all that and we'd say, what are some things we can maybe adjust or different ways to look at?

Current events that might help them adjust a little bit better. So that might be kind of the beginning to the middle range of where we'd see some of our postpartum patients. And then at the extreme end, we might see some patients who are really struggling. And oftentimes these were more of the new moms, moms who maybe had already been struggling to begin with financially, uh, maybe with housing, maybe with, uh, any other phys.

Physical medical conditions, some had might have diabetes or high blood pressure, so whatever it might be, and now you're adding on the challenges of being a new mom. The challenges of of how do I deal with these feelings are physically, a lot of the fe, a lot of the women would say all of this weight gain.

There was always, in general, I'd see a lot of comments around weight gain and what that did to them emotionally, what it did to their psyche, what it did to their self-esteem, and that usually would trigger lots of depress. and now we're looking at individuals who might be more at the later end of the spectrum, where now all that depression is manifesting itself in lots of scary, scary, you know, signs, maybe signs like thoughts of hopelessness, thoughts of desperation.

Even thoughts of suicide in some instances. And so I know me as a clinician, I, I would really hone in on that because at the end of the day, we want all of our, anybody, but specifically our postpartum patients to be very safe. And sometimes that severity of depression was so intense. The treatment plan became come and see your outpatient therapist, and in turn, I will also link them up with a doctor that I might be teaming with and say, doc, can you evaluate my patient to determine if they might benefit from an antidepressant medicine that might be kind of middle of the range to help get them back to stability in some baseline and have them continue with counseling and by and large when we'd see.

Treatment plan get in place, we'd watch a lot of our extreme patients who were really struggling begin to feel a little bit better, begin to experience a little bit more stability and able to adjust a little bit more. Not where everything's happy and perfect, but not that where everything's like the end of this world because some of the concerns.

and the reports that my patients would express was just amazing that it just getting up in the morning to try to deal with a crying baby to deal with their depression, which oftentimes it was so intense, they could feel that that depression welling up in their bones. The pain. The loss of hope, the loss of joy, the loss of energy, the self-esteem.

I, I maybe even would say I don't feel attractive anymore to my husband or my boyfriend. I'm not the same. I don't want to go out in public with my friends anymore. So there was all of these concerns where they're feeling all of that. Yet they're having to care for a newborn as well. So that would just lead to, so, Very serious depression.

We wanted to make sure we got that looked at, both from a medical standpoint and from a mental health standpoint as well. Mm-hmm. . Wow, that's amazing. And I feel like you touched on so many amazing points is. As a new mother, whether it's your first baby or your sixth, like there is going to be so many things that we're struggling with and a lot of it stems from our culture.

Unfortunately, I feel like society just showcases like this bounce back. Um, the bounce back culture. We gotta get our body back, we gotta do this, we gotta look good, we gotta hang out with our friends, we gotta, you know, homeschool our kids, we gotta eat clean, all the, all the things. So yeah, it's, it's overwhelming and it's very important to have a person like that, but I know.

Mom, myself, I am not gonna necessarily reach out to somebody automatically because I don't want anybody to think that I can't handle it. So I mean, is there anything that you would suggest for like a partner, like what to look out for? when a mom is postpartum and you know she might be struggling, is there any specific signs that you would look for?

Well, I think you just described it really well. I think when you said, I don't want others to think that. I think that you're really starting to tap into a couple areas that we, as clinicians, the cool thing about us is we have staffing where I sit with my team and they've gotta present cases to me, and we have to go over the bits and pieces and the intense parts of each person's case to find out what's going on.

And you what, just what you just said is it comes up all the time. They're worried about what others are gonna. and, and then you talk about culture. Well, when you talk about culture, there's society, there's general culture. And then in my program that I ran years ago in, uh, all our postpartum patients, they were a lot of times, often from the Latino background.

So we know in our Latino culture we're, we really put a lot into independence, into I've got this into, I, I can't ask for help because then that's gonna blow this whole myth that I, I've got it all. . And the reality is we don't, regardless of any culture, the fact is we just don't. And we're so scared to reach out for help.

And what we've realized now, it actually takes more strength. To say, you know what? I don't have this. The reality is, I, I need some help. And in one of my, there's, I can see her face right now in one of my clients, she'd come in and, and she was struggling a lot and she had dealt with so much trauma. She is one of, one of the extreme cases.

She had trauma. She had gone through other childbirth were very difficult. Hers were very, very intense. And she says, I've been wearing this cape, she called it a cape where she felt like she had to do it all herself. She had to be the perfect. The perfect mom for her newborn and the other babies. The house had to be perfect.

She had to be this great friend to everybody, and she was literally exhausting herself. And I got to the point in session where I became very direct with her. I was like, you know what? You need to hang that cape up. That's it. Because the very thing that you want, , the very thing we want as a parent, as a father, as a mother, we wanna be so effective in caring for our children.

We wanna be there with love and energy and sunshine and do all these great things. We can't do that if we're not caring for ourselves. And I can't care for myself if I don't reach out for help. So back in the day of saying, well, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna look, I'm not gonna reach out, out. We're gonna have to get rid of that narrative because it's in the way and it's blocking ourselves from getting some good care.

And one of the cool things, every now and then a husband or a boyfriend would come to. with the partner and I was like, dude, high five man. Fist bumps. Dude, that was, I was so excited to see that. Mm-hmm. because as a father myself, back in the day with, I was with my son's mother, one of the big areas that I tried to do at the time was educate myself and just a little bit that I learned that, I read that I'd gone to Lama's classes with my son's mom and I thought to myself, what, if anything, can I do to place some critical support here just to be helpful?

and I would talk to my guys in session. I'd say, dude, if you just read a little bit, just learn a little bit and learn about the quality of Patie. because who you're used to being with is gonna be a significantly different person, who they are now and who they're gonna be for a while. So stop asking for all this attention on you when you should be able to turn that around and give a lot more to your partner right now.

So I, I think I, I really believe that there's so much to be said about these narratives about not wanting to reach out and what we might look like to others one of these days. Hopefully, when we can get rid of that, I think we're gonna see a lot more postpartum. Moms doing a lot better health-wise when they say, Hey, you know what, I can't be mis perfet in how I look on this whole social media page because that's not reality.

Allall, I think that's a painted picture that people have bought into that doesn't exist. But until then, we're gonna keep running into these problems and these bumps because we think that that's out there. And you know, the fact is it's not. It's really not so. Right. And it's true. Like no matter what.

Nobody as perfect as you try to be. Nobody is perfect and you will not be perfect. And all it is is you're running yourself ragged and then you can't be fully present with your kids, with your husband or partner, whoever it may be, or your family because you're just trying so hard in this one area that something next to that is just gonna fall.

So, and you obviously touched on your experience, so partner at the time, did she experience any postpartum depression or. Yeah, it's a good question. I know what she had had a child before Mason and mm-hmm. , she said that was difficult. Luckily she said for Mason's whole, during and effort it wasn't as bad.

She did experience some level of depression. I remember her describing that. So there was a lot more difficulty on her part to kind of get up and do things. And I think it was, it was my response to be much more helpful and, and I kind of knew at the time it was. Huge experience becoming a dad and one of the greatest joys of my life, I kind of knew well, well this is gonna be it.

He's more than enough. You know, he's a handful. He still is , you know, and I, I thought to myself, you know, why don't I do as much as I can? So, I guess back in the day, and probably still, I was very much a hands-on dad. I did an off as much as I possibly could around the house as far as staying up late and changing diapers and feedings, and just immersing myself in the entire experience.

I know at the time, For her. She was always very grateful and very thankful, and I know for me it was a, it was a once in a lifetime experience and I'm glad I did that. I, I think that isn't necessarily the norm for a lot of guys. A lot of guys still are caught up in this old school thinking that, well, that's a, that's a female, that's a mom's job.

They're the ones who do that. And, and it couldn't be further from the truth. I, I, I, I have buddies of mine. Who are very hands on. They, they do an awful lot, and their wives are just so grateful that they've turned it into kind of a teamwork partnership thing that, Hey, if you can pitch in, if you can help out with this, that'd be great.

And, and I'm glad that I did it. It's an experience that I'll, well, I, I have. Have in my heart, in my, in my memory bank forever, and I'm glad that I did that. It, it, I, I learned, I certainly learned firsthand what the true meaning of the word exhaustion really is. When you have no sleep, you're exhausted. The headaches, the fatigue.

Everything just sat in. I thought, oh my goodness. Us guys, man, we have to be a lot more grateful and have a lot more respect for what our wives and our moms have gone through because it is something that most guys just don't get. But I, I kind of get that exhaustion now and, and I think that's what usually would the, would be the term that would come up in session with our postpartum patients.

Most of my clients at the time would talk about, I'm just so exhausted. And the exhaustion wasn't just the tiredness physically or the lack of. It was the mental exhaustion, the emotional exhaustion, the spiritual exhaustion where they just felt like these, these empty tanks where I just don't know what to do next, Jerry.

So obviously their experiences were ripe. For depression disorders, the anxiety disorders, even some post-traumatic stress because it had been so much to go through. And so now we're dealing with what are you gonna do now to adjust to all of these feelings in these moods that you maybe have never experienced before?

And so we would really focus in on that. . And one of the areas I saw that was usually missing a lot was these support teams. And these very same young ladies that would come into session would say, well, I used to have all these friends of mine, and we'd go to lunch, we'd go to Starbucks, we'd hang out, but I don't have that anymore.

And I would challenge that thinking I would be like, Well, why not? Well, I, I don't wanna go in public. I don't look like this. And he would come right back to appearances again. I'm like, dude, please, really, you need to, you need to revisit that because you need that support. I get. That we, we maybe have special relationships with our moms or our dads or brothers and sisters, don't get me wrong, but there's something significant to be said to get it in a peer group of where you are too.

When you get single moms together or a group of moms who've just recently gone through child who have kids similar age. There's a lot of power there. There's a lot of healing. There's a lot of connectedness where you can get that. . And that in turn begins to take that level of depression. What you may be experiencing up here begins to chill it out just a little bit.

So now when I get up tomorrow, it's challenging, but not as much as it was the day before because I'm getting plugged in again. And a lot of moms were reluctant to do that because of their own issues. And I just was thinking about it. It's like you're gonna have to face that fear or risk that vulnerability.

And if you do, , the, the benefits are gonna far outweigh the, the risk and it's worth taking. And I, I wanna challenge everybody to really keep that in mind going forward, because if I could share anything, I would really encourage that. For a lot of moms who are in postpartum, consider that and, and let's see if that might be something you can really hold on to and, and see if it's,

I love that. So I know that you talked about, you know, one of the things that you would kind of suggest would be to see like a physician and see about getting like on an antidepressant. Um, which, you know, I feel like of course that can have its place. Um, But for somebody who doesn't want to take the medication route, is there anything else that you would suggest that's more, kind of, more on a, I guess like a holistic, more of a connection kind of thing?

Is there anything. . Yeah, for sure. I, I would definitely always start with a primary care doctor, and if that's something someone's just refusing, then I would, I would plug in what I just talked about. If you can have a solid social support system, if you could begin to really take a good look at the food and the drink, you're consuming.

I, I, I, I think what I've seen from some of my other patients and some of my, I've got some coworker. Clinicians who do a great job around whole health, around, uh, whole proper diet nutrition. What they've said is when an individual is, is really watching what they eat, uh, really into other, maybe some natural ways in terms of, I've had a lot of clients talk to me about the benefits of yoga meditation, about music, about really connecting, maybe even, uh, faith-based.

Uh, a lot of clients used to go and talk about the importance of their church and their life and their faith. When individuals plug into that, then they're really starting to really engage themselves in all levels, whether it's mentally, emotionally, spiritually, uh, nutrition wise, you, I've literally watched some of my clients really take those steps and begin to feel better as well.

The only catch I, I do really want. Everyone to be mindful of from a professional standpoint is, please, if that's something you want to try, please do. If, if it's not working, if you see yourself, no changes at all. Please, please always consider a a doctor because again, doctors will be the ones medically who we always want to go to first.

And with mental health, we look at that as. Let a doctor say, you know what, Jerry, you might benefit from, you know, seeing a counselor for a while, or something like that. But yeah, I've heard a lot of positive feedback around food and yoga and meditation, drawing, going outdoors, uh, proper exercising, all of that.

has its place, and I've heard lots of people really get a lot of benefits from that. I've talked to a lot of the postpartum clients. I'm they, they would talk about how much they've really gotten into the, just the love of walking. They would go on walks, they would go out to parks. They would go out to lakes and how that just fed their soul.

And you, they would come back to session i'd, they'd have a whole different look. I'm like, Hey, well Jerry, here's what I've been doing and they're doing. Their program and whether it was journaling, whether it was, we just talked about be connecting with outdoor nature, that would do a lot for, and you would see that, and I was so glad for them and, and, and just to keep it real.

A lot of 'em didn't get a lot from that. And then when they did not get benefits from it. Then they're willing to consider, hey, don't rule out, at least just going to for a check-in with your doctor. So I am all for that. I'm a hundred percent with that. Again, I, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna lie, I, I really believe in medical doctors obviously first, but give it a try.

Absolutely. Give any of that a try for sure. And, and see if you might, you know, find it helpful for you. . Yeah. And so has your experience, um, in that aspect changed your view on motherhood or fatherhood? . Wow. Well, how long show do we have, pat? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. . No, it, it sure has. You know, I, I think for me, uh, becoming a dad, first off, back in 1989, just begin becoming a parent.

I remember the after, you know, obviously checking on, on, on, on my son's mom at the time, and obviously being just in incredibly my life has never been the same. Being a dad now for 24 years and inheriting you as my daughter and your brother and sister, my kids, I just love you guys dearly. I, I think for me after that, the first people I literally, and I can still see it now, we were at the Tracy Hospital.

I literally in, in the birth room. My mom was there. . And then, uh, in a few minutes I saw my dad. I literally turned to both my parents and I remember just with tears streaming down my face. Just gave both of them hugs, told them both, both how much I loved them and my dad's looking like, yeah, dude. See, I told you,

You know, I mean, I'll never forget that. , but there was just this extra, and you know as well, I see how beautiful the connection you have with your mother and you. There's just this incredible growth of appreciation and gratitude for your parents, which you always, you you've always loved and had respect for your parents, but it might as well just grow a million times more that instant you become a parent.

It's like, There's just a different level of connection there. So I remember that one. One of the first changes in me and then also just as a father, as if I, I, I think guy's experience is probably more is that we may have been living from kind of a selfish nature. Where we're kind of, especially in the Latino culture, a lot of us males we're kind of used to being spoiled a little bit by our Mexican moms maybe, or, or by our wives maybe.

But then you really begin to realize, whoa, if ever there's a time to change over to that complete unselfish mode, it's now. Because life no more is about you, dude. It is about your child. And I know for me, the, the minute that Mace was born again, just having this incredible flood of emotion and all the tears and, and just holding onto his hand in the little birth room there, it's something I'll, I can see as clearly as right now.

And I thought to myself, This is an amazing experience and you realize this little human is counting on you for everything, and you know, you just realize in that moment you realize, wow, I think going forward, you know your life will never be again about you first. It's about your child first and you second.

And it's something that to this day, you know, your mother and I share all you guys, we call the four of you are core four. You're our core four adult children. And as much as you guys are adults, you're still children in our hearts, and we love all of you dearly, but you realize you're still adjusting because everybody's so different.

You wanna make sure you parent them properly and you're there for them at in a age appropriate way. and, and over the years I've, I've, every parent makes their mistakes, right? You just hope they're not that big. But you learn, you learn so much in this role of parenting that it's given me an extra level of appreciation back in those days when I was able to, uh, have a counseling session with my postpartum moms to realize what they're experiencing, that adjustment and that transition and their need.

for support was overwhelming, and their reluctance to ask for it was really, really this, this big barrier that they had put up themselves because I, I called it these competing narratives. Well, I, I, right. We live by these narratives in our mind where we have all this self-talk that says, well, I really need this.

but I'm not gonna ask my mom for help. I'm not gonna ask my sister, my friends, because I should be doing this myself. And so we, a lot of my postpartum pet patients would fall into that trap and they would actually find themselves feeling worse, more depressed, more upset. More frustrated frequently, crying frequently, just add feelings of desperation.

And I would challenge them from a professional standpoint. I'd say I respect that your, your desire is to be independent, but you know, this isn't about you anymore. First, it's about your child and you're not gonna be there to give him to be that best mom you want. unless you do risk and ask for help and get rid of that narrative, get rid of hang up the cape because it's, it's not about wearing it anymore.

It's about making sure that your baby's the one that's wrapped up really well, and that you're able to be there physically in every other way present to help them out. Because the very thing that you wanna be, you won't be because you're not taking care of you. . Yeah, and that's true because if you look at the darkest side of it, you know, if you're having suicidal thoughts and you know, end up following through, then.

your baby doesn't have you. Yeah. So I think you just have to, I mean, and , I'm not very much speaking from a place of practice because as you know, I'm like, Nope, I can do it all. I can do it myself. I don't need help. I got this. It's all good. Um, so I think it's great that you are putting this out there because it helps me too.

it's okay. It's okay to not have it all together. It's okay to ask for help if you're struggling. Reach out because somebody will wanna help you. Nobody wants to see you struggle, struggling. Mm-hmm. , uh, especially, you know, a loved one, cuz that is like one of the hardest things is to just watch the love, watch a loved one struggle and go deeper and deeper into this depression or whatever it may be.

So, you know, I feel like a lot of moms will be listening to this. So if they have a partner, is there anything like you can suggest to a mom for her partner to help out without sounding like they're momming them? Like, Hey, you need to do this to help me. Hey, you need to do that to help me. I don't know if you have any insight into that.

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And first of all, I really want to thank you, Miha, because for you to be transparent and just share where you're coming from, I believe that's key. Once we are able to put our stuff out there, then we can take the next steps, right? We're talking about healings first. And then education second.

I remember back in the day, I would really, really encourage my clients, I think with, with, let's just say in general for guys. Oftentimes my moms would come into session and, and they would say, they would describe an incident just like what you said. Well, I told them this and I told 'em that, and, and then, and oftentimes I would say, well, I respect that your, your intentions were good, but there's just something about when we start talking to guys and this, I told you attitude.

Sometimes guys can take a little bit of offense to that. Guys aren't always so receptive of that many guys, they, they struggle with bosses at work, so they start to feel bossy and they will end up getting more distant and they really don't want to help out. I'm a big believer in the language that we. I think there's just so much to be said about language.

I, I tried to raise my son for years using the word we and us and team and there was just something that he bought into that and so realized we're going to do this or why don't we go do this? When I would share it or present an idea or suggestion with the, we are in US language, it tend. He tended to buy into that more.

And some of the moms said they would actually go back after counseling sessions with me and say, well, I asked my husband, or I asked my boyfriend, maybe we can consider doing these things together. And when they presented things in a we type way, instead of saying, you should do this, and said, and, and substitute that with, we.

they found a little bit more positive response from their partners than the you should. And I, I, I would really encourage that with moms that, Hey, we, I know you're struggling, but even if it's like, why don't we go together to maybe the doctor appointment? Why don't we go together and do this together?

Why don't we do this for the baby together? When it's presented that way? I'd see a lot of guys, I, I was informed that a lot of guys would give a. Positive reaction to that instead of being told to do, being asked in a, we fashion, a lot of, a lot of partners bought into. . Okay. Well that's good. Yes. I love that.

And I actually practiced that too because I learned from my second baby that I used the word I a lot or you a lot. And once I changed that language to we or us, it definitely helped transition things into more of like a. , we're doing this together. I'm not just pointing the finger at you. I'm not saying just you like us cuz we're a team.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point. And I think with with partners, the other strategy that we used in session was that I would really encourage my new moms to kind of get a list of questions. Guys, let's just face it. A lot of times guys like to talk about things and so it's like, Hey honey, what do you think?

and just ask the question of interest to the partner and, and as they're getting towards a suggestion or maybe an ask, they would kind of put it out there where they, they're kind of gaining their partner's interest. They're gaining their attention, they're asking about where they're at, and then they would suggest something.

So it's kind of like, Just kind of testing the waters, getting that interest stimulated to begin with. And now that we're engaged in conversation, now we can get into like the ask or the suggestion and kind of go from there. And then I would encourage the moms kind of, again, we're talking about mutual partnership, equal partnership here, I would say.

And then when your husband. or your partner or whoever is, and they suggest something, unless it's obviously something just, you know, impossible, maybe you can kind of go along with it, be cooperative and do things in a collaborative spirit. Then you might see a little bit more buy-in both ways, because a lot of times partners don't wanna feel like they're just always being asked.

They wanna be able to ask as well, and I. That would be helpful and if there's anything I would share, I would really encourage the mom to say, Hey, if, if the guy's willing, if the partner's willing, maybe if we wanna begin to educate ourselves a little bit more about some of the changes that obviously I'm going to be going through and then we can learn this together.

I think looking back, that's one of the themes and the patterns I would keep, we'd keep coming out in session. What is it as far as all the changes I can expect to happen here? And a lot of of the moms would say, I wish he would just begin to understand these changes. And that would be something I would really encourage moms to share with their partners going forward.

Yeah. And I think that is a great point because I never realized that, you know, after we have a baby, like of course I felt the hormonal change of course, but I didn't realize to the extent that it would be, and like Javi and I, we never talked about that like before we even had our first baby together.

So when. , I had the baby. I was going through postpartum depression. Mm-hmm. Um, and I didn't realize what it was. And neither did he. Mm-hmm. , he just thought I was.

He would joke, joke, um, I put air quotes, joke that I didn't love him anymore. Um, because our relationship was totally different and it wasn't because I was, I was trying to be different. It was because literally my. Hormones were all over the place and I didn't know how to handle that. And in turn, he didn't know how to handle it cuz he just thought, you know, well he gave me a baby.

That's what I wanted. I'm done with him. Or you know, , I don't know if that's exactly his thinking, but you know what I mean, like Sure. Um, so I think it's important to have that discussion before you even have a baby. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , like, you know, do some research, like say like you said, Hey, this might happen, this might happen.

You know, give all the scenarios even to the most extreme scenarios. and you know, what's the worst that can happen? Those situations don't happen. But you had that discussion mm-hmm. beforehand. So yeah, I think it's very important to be transparent and that is, that can be one of the hardest parts, um, about it.

Great. You bring up some great points too, because, uh, what you just described with J's reaction or his experie. is so common. It happens all of the time. And one of the bigger adjustments we would, we would talk on talk in in session about was how the relationship has changed. The baby now has changed the relationship.

And I was like, well, yeah, you have the third person in the house now, you know , there's gonna be a significant shift and. A willingness to have those conversations both before, during and after are key because a lot of times, again, couples are fearful and I used to do couples counseling as well, and a lot of times couples, they just didn't want to go there because it was fear and I get that.

We all get that. But those that were willing to engage those difficult conversations and speak truth in love, then those were the ones who couples were. Have some challenges, but it wasn't quite the end of the world. They were, let's get an extra coffee babe, whatever we need to do. So we'll get through the day.

Cuz it is a lot for, for, you know, even for two people. But, but those that don't, they typically would struggle and, and oftentimes, Many times when my guys would come in and accompany the new moms in session, oftentimes it was a, it was a mind shift on their part that I was trying to get them and encourage them to do realize.

A lot of times guys in general would get spoiled by all the time and attention they would receive from their wife or their girlfriend and realize, okay guys, that's gonna be decreased significantly now because there's a newborn in the house that shouldn't just be getting all the time attention from the mom.

But if it's a teamwork, then the dad needs to shift a lot of a time and attention to the newborn as well. And that particular transition for males to or for partners to do that was very challenging and, and oftentimes that's where I would really direct my questioning to the guys. Like, guys, this is gonna be something that's gonna help me be pivotal.

in, in what's going on now with this newborn at home, both in for the child and also for the mental health and wellbeing of the new mom. Because when we talk about the word adjustment, you should just have a picture of a newborn in the dictionary, right? Because that is the ultimate definition of adjustment, right?

How are we gonna adjust to this? It, and you're right, we it. There's no, you can tie off all the talks you want with everybody, but it's gonna be individual specific. It's gonna be so different for you, for your sister, for her, for it just is. If the ones who did not have understanding partners would come into session, and those were the ones who typically were more at the further end of the depression scale because there was no help.

Their feelings were tremendously hurt. They're already extra sensitive to begin with because of all these changes hormonally, as you just discussed. So with all that, I, they just needed one more little switch. to trip them right over to full-blown major depression. So now it's like, okay, hold on. Now we're dealing with very serious issues here and oftentimes one of the first things and research will show this is how understanding supportive was my partner during this difficulty time in adjusting to all of this situation at home.

It came up every time I still hear it and see it. I talk about it with some of my buddies now, who many of us are grandpa, you know, so, but again, it's key. . If guys, if partners can get that, then I think it, it would be so helpful. You know, that gonna make it perfect, but it'll make a big difference. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love everything that you just talked about. I mean, ugh, that's so good. I think it's so good and it's so needed. We just need to get all this information out there so that we normalize the fact. Not everything is perfect all the time. Absolutely not. Um, so I just kind of wanna recap and go back to like, what would you suggest for a partner, like how would you suggest they support, um, their partner that's going through this?

Yeah, that's a good question. I, I, I really wanna encourage partners. Oftentimes it was guys, I think men oftentimes have this built-in leadership trait in them. Uh, in, in some ways it's cool, it's a nice quality and it's very helpful. But I, I've often asked guys, and, and being in leadership, leadership for so many years now, there's a form of leadership called servant leader.

where now a real leader is one who's willing to serve. And now I would ask a lot of the, I would encourage a lot of the guys say, guy, if you really wanna be a strong leader in your home, you really want to be a servant leader. Where now you're kind of allowing your part, your wife or your girlfriend, whoever it may be that's having the OR just had the baby.

Allow them to lead and be supportive of them. Be protective of them. Be providing to them and educate yourself as much as possible to say, today she's going to lead us out as a family, whether it's just three of you or six of you, however many kids you guys have, and say, today she's gonna take these up and she may suggest this.

Or ask this or, and it's your turn to take that as a cue to say, Hey, why don't we follow her lead today? And a lot of guy, a lot of the times guys might struggle with that with their big egos, but a lot of guys who felt a little bit more secure in themselves and realize that this is. . This is a season in their lives.

It's not, they're not gonna be newborns forever. Oftentimes, you know, in, in, in, let's say today as, as your mom and I experienced you, we have four gro grown adult kids. You guys are beautiful. You guys are super busy, different, we have beautiful grandchildren, but we also have our home to ourselves, which is actually kind of cool.

You know, we're at that stage. We kind of do our thing. We check in with the kids, with you guys, but all times we do our own thing and. I would really encourage the guys say, Hey, look, this is a season and this is just kind of what it entails right now. It's not gonna be forever. They're, you're gonna have other stages, a as, as you well know.

They're gonna be, they're gonna be kindergarten, they're gonna be high school, they're gonna be college. . But right now, this is a critical time. So if you can take that leadership and place being a servant leader in front of that, I think you're gonna, your home is gonna be a lot more stable. There's gonna be a lot more contentment.

Where now when you get up late at night because the baby's crying. , it's not gonna be so much the end of the world. There'll be some, some fatigue, but it'll be a lot more manageable for your the mom in the home. And as a supportive partner, you're gonna go a long way in helping to keep the health and the peace and that relationship and in the home as you walk through this season of your lives.

Yes. Yes. And I think when you're in the midst of it, , it can be really hard to remember that this is not gonna last forever. This, you know, kids grow up, they get older. Like look at me. I have an 18 year old now. So weird to say still. Yeah. Um, and a one-year-old, you know, so I know I'm at the one-year-old stage.

but we're not gonna stay there. Right. And you know, it'll be okay, but we just gotta take those steps towards getting our mental health right. Getting our community right, and just getting out there and stop being so in our own heads about everything. Yes. Because the way we view ourselves. Nobody is gonna, nobody's gonna view us that way.

We are our worst critic. . Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. I, and you know, I'm glad you brought that up because after all these years, I've seen patients of all different backgrounds, all different sizes, shapes, colors, wealthy, broke, you name it. I've just been so blessed to see so many different patients and extra blessed to be in leadership positions where I get to supervise other clinicians.

Now, just to see one of the biggest things. Typically stands out all the time is people just continue to beat themselves up, beat themselves up, and in some, sadly, almost wear it as a badge of honor. Well, I went through this and I went through that. It's like, wow, that's sad. It's, it's really not healthy.

It's not good. But many of us were raising this old school way where it's like, if. Can struggle through this crisis and I can get it, then that means, well, you know what, it doesn't anymore. It, it's not cool. It's nothing to be proud of. Actually, again, as we shared earlier, it's actually stronger to actually reach out and ask for a reasonable amount of help to say, look, this, this isn't an everyday experience where I, I got a flat tire, or I skin my knee, you know where I can.

Get through that. We're talking about raising a child and, and also going through the changes and adjusting to what you're going through here. And you're right, the ones who actually are able to step outside of our own head and all, all our own self-talk and say, Hey, look, I need to check in with you about this because what I'm feeling isn't right.

and this isn't normal and I really need to talk, talk to somebody about this. Those are the ones in the long run who experience a lot more joy of motherhood, a lot more joyous times with their children and just joy as a parent and as a person themselves. And I, I really believe we need to encourage a lot of us to do that because it's so needed, like never.

definitely. So there's another question I was just wondering, uh, if you could have a redo on anything surrounding like, you know, the birth of your son or you know, anything that has to do with that postpartum season, is there anything that you would redo or, you know, just kind of take it as it was? No, I would, uh, I, I think what I would do is, and to this day it's, it's one of my many faults, it's, I would really choose to slow down a lot more.

I, I think, uh, back in the day, I, I was just so busy with, with work and career and schooling and raising my son and just so much, it's like the moments that I remember I cherish the most are the ones where I just totally would slow down and it usually involved. Spontaneous fun in the middle of things. A as as a parent.

It'd be like, let's go in the yard and wrestle. Let's go play outside. Let's get in the car and go for a drive. Let's go run in the sprinklers. There's a vision I have right now of allowing my son to run through this big muddy sprinkler on, on Ben Holt in Stockton at a Anderson park or whatever park it was, and the kid was just laughing his head off.

He was all muddy and I. I would've never thought this, but I said, you know what? It was so much fun cuz we did something on the, on the spur of the moment. It was joyous, it was fun, and we just slowed life down. I would encourage everyone to slow down what you can, because as you well know, those moments just go by so fast.

And the next thing you know, your one-year-old is now 18 and they're doing their own thing, so slow. and take in those special moments cuz they're, they're fast and, and definitely encouraging when to just take it slower and enjoy 'em while you can. Ooh. I love that. That just like brought up so much emotion for me.

I love that. Me too. . Yeah, that I think that's important though. Like just go for those moments. Like not everything has to be planned. Just let it be. Whatever it is. Just let it happen. Yeah. Um. Okay, so gosh, I really, really enjoyed this conversation. Me too, me too. Oh my gosh, definitely. So if there was anybody that wanted to come into contact with you, how could they reach you?

Is Jerry.silva2.va.gov That's my professional work email. Again, we, for the last 10 years, our team has gone up and down Central California. We, we speak at events, at conferences, we do interviews. We've been in touch with the media, so please feel free to reach out to me on that email and I'll be happy to set up appointments or get togethers.

You name it, I'll be happy to speak more to mental health, suicide prevention. Anywhere I can serve, I, I'd be. I love that. And then, uh, just real quick, your niche right now is I've been lucky enough to serve at the Fresno VA Hospital for 11 years now. I, I work in the mental health department. I am the facility Suicide Prevention Program manager.

And having worked with veterans and just watching how they've served this country and our team being involved in preventing suicide, We offer counseling to our veterans who are at high risk for suicide. We get them connected for services. We link them up with the community with different resources.

I've been doing that there for about 11 years and it has been nothing short of amazing, rewarding. My coworkers, the professionals in this field are outstanding and they're. Dynamic in what they do. I've, I've hired staff on my team who are excellent. I, I'm spoiled by them cuz they make my job so easy. I get to kind of hang out and watch 'em do their thing.

So yeah, see whatever God has planned for me next, and I'm just here to follow him, see what I can do to help. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and I feel like we might have it in us to have another talk down the, down the line. I'm kind of feeling that too. Pad that's, you got, you got that intuition.

I'm with you there. I, I got you. You buy the coffee miha and I'm there. I'll at that. Is that fair enough? That's right. I'll have it. I'll have it ready, . Sounds good. Sounds like a great. All right. Until next time. Thank you. You're welcome. Bye-bye. Bye. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I enjoyed creating it.

Please subscribe so you don't miss any of the discussions on all of these hot topics. Head over to my Instagram at the Birth Junkie podcast to let me know what you thought about this episode. I can't wait to see you here next week. Until next time, bye.