Breastfeeding is Hard… But it Doesn’t Have To Be
Today I have a very cool guest. I love talking about this specific subject. I don't feel like it's talked about enough, but I have Kim Hunter on here, and she specializes in lactation, and I'm gonna let you take it away with a little deeper introduction, Kim. Thank you. So my name is Kim Hunter, and I'm an IBCLC, which just sounds like a lot of letters.
But what that means is, um, International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. I'm also a certified postpartum doula, so I love working with families after babies are born. I love snuggling babies, and I love helping moms. figure out their breastfeeding journey. Amazing. So what brought you into this journey?
Oh my goodness. So it probably started, um, with the birth of my second child. I wanted to have a VBAC. That was very important to me. So I was searching around the internet, figuring out kind of like what's the best way to go about that and be successful. And so that's where in a parenting group, I stumbled upon the word doula.
Everyone's like, you should get a doula. And I'm like, what, what is a doula? Like, what is that? So you know me, I'm like, like, you know, Googling online, trying to figure it out. And, um, a doula in the community approached me. And, um, you know, we started messaging, and I was like, I was really, um, interested in the services that she had to offer.
That's kind of where I learned about doula work, which is kind of the start to my whole, my whole little journey that I've been on. Um, so I ended up hiring said doula, um, and she actually had a team of doulas, and one of them turned out to be my neighbor across the street. Which was kind of a small world.
And so, um, the birth went great. Everything went great. But after my son was born, I was talking to my neighbor and she was, and I was, you know, kind of looking for maybe something else to do with my life. I worked in an accounting firm for years and years, and that was never what I wanted to do, just kind of somewhere I ended up.
And so she was like, you should look into postpartum doula work. And I was like. What is that? And so she explained it to me and I went home and I started searching all around trying to figure out what that was and I signed up for a training and I started doing postpartum work. And that's where I found, um.
That, you know, I could help with breastfeeding, right, you know, with the new families, but my, my scope of practice or my skill set kind of, you know, I would hit a wall where I would then need to refer out to more, you know, educated, skilled and trained lactation professionals. And so, at one point, I just decided I didn't want to keep.
Referring my families out to other lactation consultants. I wanted to be the one that helped them from start to finish. And so once I get an idea in my head, I kind of just go for it. Um, my husband doesn't really like that so much because I don't necessarily talk to him about everything before I just start doing it.
Right. And so, yeah, I, I signed up. For the lactation consultant classes, I had to do all my pre reqs and everything, but I just kind of went full speed ahead. And here I am, doing what I love to do. Wow, I love that so much. And I, I have to say, I can relate because when I set my mind to something, I go like, 1, 000 percent.
And I don't always tell my husband either, and he's like, Okay, what are you pivoting to now? Like, what is happening? Because like after my last birth, I was like, I'm, I'm gonna become a doula. And I was like, a couple weeks postpartum. And he's like, wait, what are you doing now? And I signed up like four weeks postpartum for a doula training.
I was like, I'm doing this. So I get that. But I think that's so amazing. And I do feel like, I mean, personally, my previous doula training, the first one that I did was very lacking in lactation support. It was just like, they do not go in depth, as in depth as like, I feel like mothers or families need.
Absolutely. Yeah. Right. It's just like one. Like one class, like, that's all that we need, right, for our dualist certifications, just one, I don't, what is it, like, three hours or something? Yeah. It's very small. Yeah, you know, and the thing is, even the staff at the hospital, that's all they, you know what I mean, they get very, very small bit of breastfeeding training, and then they're supposed to work with these new moms and help them breastfeed when they don't necessarily have the education and training.
Sorry, that's just one way. No, I think it's, it's, it's what's happening. I mean, it's the reality, like they're not deeply trained in lactation. And it's crazy because that's a huge part of your birth, especially if you're planning on breastfeeding, because breastfeeding, I mean, in my personal experiences, it was hard.
It was not. As easy as I assumed it would be, I was just like, I got boobs, you know, they'll work and I just put the baby on there and boom, that's it. Like, no, that's not what it was. I probably hear that from like every person I help. Like, I, I didn't realize this was going to be so hard. You know what I mean?
That's what I hear all the time. Like, right? You just, you just put the baby on the boob and then they, they eat and then, you know, everyone goes along with their day. When in reality, a lot of times it's not that easy. And even if there's nothing, you know, even if there's no big challenges, like, you know, no tongue ties or anything like that, sometimes, you know, they're tired, they're tired from, you know, birth and, and they need help kind of, you know, coordinating their mouths and, yeah, a lot of things can just be hard, right, right after birth and with breastfeeding.
Yeah, so do you actually go to the hospital and help or do you have your, because I know you do have an office, right? Um, so a lot of times what happens with that, um, is the hospital is already going to bill insurance for lactation support. So if I was also there, there would be like an insurance billing issue, unless they were a private pay client, but typically I go to their home or they come to my office.
It depends on their location. I serve families. In San Joaquin County, Stanislaus County, I also venture out kind of into like the Livermore area or like Discovery Bay, Brentwood, I go that way. So some of the families, I come to their home and then sometimes they come to my office or sometimes I have to borrow a friend's office and meet them there.
Like I'm doing tomorrow. Oh, how cool. And how do you do that? Because you're obviously connected with different um, lactation specialists. So, you just communicate with them like, I'm going to be in this area, can I use your office space? Yeah, pretty much. It's one of my, it's one of my doula friends. She was actually my doula.
Um, but yeah, she has an office in Mountain House. And so I have someone out in Oakley, and I'm, I just don't have the time to see them because that's like an hour each way. And I was like, if you're willing to meet me halfway, then we can do this. Well, that's so nice. And then obviously you said you do private pay and insurance.
So how does that work? So, um, I am in network with Aetna insurance, and then I work with the Lactation Network, which is a really great I don't even know what to call them, a company, and they work with like Blue Cross Blue Shield, Cigna, and some other PPO plans, and they pretty much take care of all the insurance and billing for me, and I get a flat rate for visits.
And so I think that's made it so amazing for all these families because it's hard working directly with insurance. It's hard getting in network with them and calling and dealing with all of that. So the Lactation Network, I think, has made it really amazing for a lot of us lactation consultants to work with families and just not have to worry about the insurance aspect of it.
Oh, that's great. Oh my gosh, I didn't realize there was like a company that does that. That's so cool. Yeah, I'm so happy that good, good. Yeah, whatever can make your life easier and take care of like some aspect of the business because there's so much more to just helping. And I'm not saying just as in like, it's not a big deal that you're helping these families like it's huge.
But you also have your back end, which not a lot of people realize how much back end work goes into this work. So, I mean, for me, if I can have somebody take on something like that helps so much. Absolutely. And how many families do you typically serve? You know, it kind of depends. I think I did make my stats for last year and last year was my first year as an IBCLC.
So I think I ended up like, I think it was like 100 families that I helped last year. And so that was just the beginning, though. I've been keeping track this year, like every month, like to see, like Like how my numbers have been growing. Um, and so I've been getting a lot of word of mouth I love when I have someone that reaches out to me and they're like, oh so and so Gave me your information.
They said you helped them so much. I'm like, oh good But it's definitely I would say the beginning of the year is kind of slower, you know, just with births in general I think we're getting into that busy time where lots of moms are having babies, so I expect that things are going to get really busy soon.
Oh, yeah, definitely. We got those Valentine's babies and New Year's babies and all the ones. Um, well, that's awesome. That's a lot of families. I mean, gosh, I can only imagine the impact that you're making. And oh, that's so beautiful. And so how old are your kids now? So my daughter is eight and a half, and my son is five and a half.
Oh, wow. And do they know what you do? Yes, yes, they're, they're both very familiar with breastfeeding and what breasts do and where babies come from and all that good stuff. Yes. That's awesome. I think it's so important that we're kind of raising up our generation, these, you know, younger generations to normalize all these things.
Because I know when I was a kid. I didn't know what breastfeeding was. I didn't know where babies came. I thought babies came out of your belly button. I mean, like, so I think it's so important that we're just normalizing these things because it is a normal process of life of our bodies of a woman's body.
So yeah, that's awesome. Right. Think of how like educated, like Their generation's going to be like when they're adults, you know what I mean? Just being surrounded by us and us trying to normalize all these things. Yeah. So are you still doing postpartum work along with your lactation? Um, very limited. I would say I have, I was doing a lot of overnights.
And so it's hard to do overnights and then work in the daytime and then raise a family and run a household. Yeah. Yep. So, I probably have one more, I have one more client on the calendar. Um, she's due next month. So, that might be my last overnight client. I have some more daytime clients lined up. They might, they might be my last family for that.
Well, that's awesome. Okay, so, I know some people, I'm changing it up a little bit. Uh, I know some people might be wondering, what is the difference between like a lactation consultant and an IBCLC, that's your... That's where you are, right? Okay, so if they don't know. I would say, so a lactation consultant is an IBCLC.
A lactation, there's a lactation counselor, there's a lactation educator. I have heard of certified breastfeeding specialists. I'm trying to think of whatever, what other terms. Or like CLC, that's like a certified lactation counselor. Or a CLE. Certified Lactation Educator. Before I became an IBCLC, um, I took the trainings to be a Certified Lactation Educator Counselor.
Wow. And so kind of if you kind of think on like on a totem pole, IBCLC is kind of like the top, they're kind of like the highest level of education certification you can get. And then it's like a CLE or a CLC. And then it kind of goes down from there. I mean, but we're they're all important, right? Um, just with like with my position, I'm kind of the one that you would bring in when we're having like very, very big breastfeeding challenges.
So, um, but everyone, you know, everyone's valuable. I would say that, um, you know, there's the education we get in school, but then it's really good to go out and seek more training and education in different topics. I would definitely say that oral oral restrictions was touched on a little bit in my training, but, um.
I'm very passionate about oral restrictions like tongue ties. Um, just with my own journeys with my children. So I definitely sought out extra training and education and Um, I work probably I'd say primarily with families who are kind of going through, you know, the whole like breastfeeding journey with tongue ties and stuff.
So that's kind of my jam. Um, but you know, everyone kind of has their own it's just like doulas, you know what I mean like. You love doing the dual work, but usually dualists kind of have their, you know, their little like specialties like VBAC or whatever it may be. Yes. No, I totally agree. And, uh, so do you like identify the tongue ties for the families?
I do. I identify, because I'm not a doctor, so I can't diagnose, um, I, I identify, I give them resources, I give them referrals to providers that can help them, you know, remedy the situation, I give referrals to body workers, because that's really important, craniosacral therapy, chiropractic for babies that are struggling with oral function is really important.
And then, um, I work on them, you know, helping them, you know, do oral rehab, like, you know, different little oral exercises to help babies get better. And, and then we try to get baby, you know, back on the breast if maybe, you know, that wasn't working well. And I've worked with families, a few families for like weeks, weeks at a time, like trying to get.
To get babies to breastfeed and kind of, you know, getting rid of like the bottles and the nipple shields. And so I've had some really great success stories and so that really just kind of drives me to keep learning more and and keep trying to help families. That's so important, especially if somebody wants to continue their breastfeeding journey, and they have all these struggles.
Because I know I struggled so much, especially after my C sections, because, you know, after you have a C section, you're drugged up, your baby's all drugged up, and so that initial, like, the first latch and everything is so difficult, because you're both like, whoa, what are we doing here? Um, so I know I definitely struggled and I know after I had my vaginal birth that was so much easier.
I was like shocked. It was like night and day because we were both very alert. I had a medicated labor and birth so. You know, he was like eyes wide open ready, you know, searching for the breast and I was like, Whoa, what is this? And I'm like 14 months postpartum now and we're still breastfeeding. So, yeah, it's been awesome.
People don't realize. Um. You know, even the epidural, like, and I'm, I'm all for epidurals, like, epidural is a tool, just like all the other tools in motherhood and, you know, everything. Um, but you know, they, they make babies sleepy, like, you know, when we have a medicated birth, babies aren't as alert and coordinated when they come out.
So that can just be a whole struggle on its own. Mm hmm. Yeah. And then obviously, because you said you had a V back. So did you notice the difference between your two breastfeeding journeys? Yes, definitely. And I will say, you know, with my first, my daughter, she developed a bottle preference in the hospital.
So things didn't go exactly as planned. Um, Yeah, I didn't feel like the hospital was super supportive, the lactation consultant. They were just like, keep trying to put her on the breast, like, you know, with no real information, no, no, no real education about it. Looking back, I'm like, they could have given me a nipple shield, like, they're, you know what I mean?
They're so quick to hand them out and labor and delivery, but in the NICU, like, no one ever, and I had no idea back then what a nipple shield even was. But looking back, I'm like, gosh, they could have just given me a nipple shield. Like they could have maybe done paste feeding. Like, these are all things that I share with my families because a lot of times, you know, when you have that first, first baby and things don't go as planned, then you have that second baby.
And then your, your goals are real clear. You know what I mean? Like you, you want to do everything that you didn't do with the first and you want to avoid everything you did with the first to make things work. And so, yeah. How was that with your second? So with my second, I was determined to have a vaginal birth, which I did.
I was determined to breastfeed him, but he ended up having a tongue tie. And so I couldn't figure out why he wasn't gaining weight, why his jaundice wasn't improving, why he wanted to nurse for an hour at a time, why I felt like my nipples were going to fall off. And so I had. I had a consultant come to my house, um, and she was like, Oh, he has a tongue tie.
And I'm like, okay, here's the credit card. Like, what, what do I do? Like, how do we fix this? Because like, this isn't sustainable. Like, but I want a breastfeed. So we, my son had a tongue tie in the time. And so we went and we got that revised by a very popular pediatric dentist in the Bay Area. And, um, yeah, after that, it was.
It was great. It was everything that I hoped and dreamed it would be, but I definitely think that my own struggles, like, very much, like, affect, you know, how passionate I am about that specific thing. Because I hear a lot of the times, oh yeah, like, all these things are happening and I don't know why. Oh, my pediatrician looked in my baby's mouth and everything looks good.
Oh, we went to the ENT and there's no tongue tying. And I'm like, Okay, well, this is what I'm seeing, and this is how it affects breastfeeding and, and all these other things. And so sometimes I'm, I'm the first person that tells the mom. You know, like about tongue ties and about, you know, her baby having one.
And sometimes I'm the third person that she's talked to when everyone else had said there, there's nothing wrong. So, yeah, it's very frustrating. Gosh, that is frustrating. And I know my, which one was it? Um, I think it was my second or no, my third, um, she had a tongue tie and. I had taken her, you know, to the pediatrician and she was like, I don't, I don't see anything.
I don't know. She didn't even seem like she knew what she was even doing. Yeah, but it was like, I had no validation for, you know, what I was feeling. I was just like. I had seen a lactation, but they were just like, keep putting her to the breast, keep putting her to the breast. But she wasn't gaining weight very fast.
And my nipples were bleeding and cracked and hurt. And I was like, had so much anxiety every time I would breastfeed because it hurt. And it was just hard, like, oh my gosh, I don't know. I guess it's like, got to do your research. So that you can just see the specialist if you feel like that's what you need to do.
Because for your mental health sake, oh my gosh, like that helps so much after that. Thank goodness. But how often do you see like the tongue ties and everything? Because now I feel like I hear about it so much more. I would say I feel like 90% of the babies I see have tongue ties. But then I, and so when I first, like, was thinking about that, I'm like, oh my, like, am I, like, over, you know what I mean?
Like, am I just thinking every baby has one? But then I had to remind myself, people are coming to me because breastfeeding's not going well. Like, you know It's not like I'm, I'm seeing all the moms that are having a great breastfeeding journey. Like, I would, I could count on one hand how many moms I've seen that maybe just needed, like, to be told they were doing a great job.
You know what I mean? Just to be told things are going great. But everyone else, you know, they're coming to me because, you know, it's painful. Or baby's not gaining weight. Or their milk supply is low. You know what I mean? And all these things. Um, definitely correlate to oral restrictions because if babies can't move their tongues correctly and they can't do what they need to do, then they're not going to get milk out of the breast.
Then they're not going to gain weight. People think, oh, baby just has to get on and suck. And that's not the case. Baby has to extend their tongue to secure the breast. Baby has to compress the breast up against the soft palate. Baby has to take the nipple all the way to the back of the mouth. If a baby can't raise its tongue, then how are they supposed to compress the breast to get the milk out?
Then they're just doing this, like at the nipple. And that's where we, like, you know, all that nipple pain. And when you do this at the nipple, not a lot of milk comes out. And so then we see... Little milk supply because you know mom it's hard to know right when you have a new baby. Oh, they're there I feel them sucking.
They look they're sucking. They must be eating but it it's like do we hear like swallows? Like so I think a lot of moms think oh the baby's there the baby's latched Everything's probably going good until then we start seeing all these other things. So it's confusing. It is confusing I was in the same boat.
I was like, oh, he's on like This must be what it, what it, what it feels like, right? This must be, you know, going great, not knowing, like, all the other components involved. Yeah, I wish everybody could see your hand gestures right now because the way you're showing me that a baby compresses. Yeah, the way a baby compresses your breasts with their mouth.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is a great visual. But the way yes, so maybe you could do like, I don't know, put something on Instagram or something showing that so I can like refer people to it because that. That makes so much sense, like the way a baby's mouth is supposed to be compressing onto the mother's breast instead of just like, like moving their mouth and nothing's happening, like they're just basically gnawing on your breast.
Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. Can't do what they need to do, then they resort to what they can do. So when I have a mom and she's like, it feels like the baby's chomping on me, I'm like, that's exactly what the baby's doing. Cuz they can't move their tongue. So they're gonna do whatever they can to get the milk out.
And so a lot of times that's just. This, and usually a trained eye can look at the baby and like, see this motion, you know what I mean? Like, know that they don't have like that, the, the right motion. So, but then I, I also like, I also stick my finger in baby's mouth, like, I feel their suck. I feel their palate.
I feel the inside of their cheeks. I, you know, flip up their lip and see like, is that restricted? Like, what does that look like? I spin them around. I lift up their tongue, like. That's what a real oral exam should be. So if, if you have a doctor, a dentist that just looks in your baby's mouth and is like, Oh, looks good.
That's they don't, they don't know what they're looking for, obviously. And that's fine. I wish more people would just be like, you know what? I'm not sure. Like, but why don't, why don't you go to this person or why don't you try to find this, this type of professional to help you? Like, it's okay to say you don't know.
I mean, in the beginning of my career, there was sometimes I didn't know. And so I would just, I would refer to someone else and be like, Hey, can you, can you put eyes on this baby and let me know what you think? Because I'm not sure. Yeah, because what is the ultimate goal? You know, it's to help the mother, like help the mother and baby on their journey and put all of your like whatever, whatever kind of feelings that they can't be wrong or they can't not know something.
Like nobody can know everything. That's impossible. Yeah, so I think there needs to be more of that too. Like, this is real life. Like, we get it. You're a person too. So, it's okay to not know. So, how many babies would you say, actually, our parents go through with getting a revision after you find this tongue tie?
You know, I haven't kept track. Maybe that would be a good thing to keep track of. I do really urge families follow up with me afterwards, you know, because we have our initial meeting and I give them the information I give them the referrals and everything and I really encourage them. Like, if you decide to get it done, let's meet up again.
I'll help you, you know, with the oral exercises, you know, and I'll help you come up with a plan going forward and. Okay. In my profession, and I know it's not just me, because I listen to other podcasts with lactation consultants and I hear this too. In my profession, like, I don't always get closure, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't always know what happens with them. Like, sometimes I see them once and I never hear from them again. Not because I don't follow up, but, you know, I understand. Like, you know, we're busy, we're, we have babies and we're pumping and, you know, doing all the things. So I don't know and I wish I did know but usually the ones that do get it done like they we keep in touch and you know, I help them, you know, I keep helping them in their journey until things are are going really good.
Okay. But you know, there's. And I don't, and you know, as far as like the ones that maybe don't get the procedure done, you know, sometimes it's financial reasons because it's not, it's not the cheapest and I only refer to, um, pediatric dentists that I know are skilled and trained and experienced and, and know, you know, know what they're doing.
And so those procedures would be covered by dental insurance, not medical insurance. Some families pay out of pocket and then some, you know, don't have the resources to do that. And then there's other families who, you know, that just sounds scary to them. You know, like taking your baby in and, and, you know, having a laser used on them and, you know, like, you know, doing things in their mouth and separating tissue.
And, you know, cause it's not just getting the procedure done. Like, you know, there's a, there's a whole, you know, other, you know, there's stretches that go along to make sure that things don't reattach. Like I said, body works really important before and after. Following up, you know, with lactation, like there's a lot of steps to the process and some, some families just find that.
To be too much to especially if they're already struggling, you know, maybe with mental health or, you know, their physical health or if there's other Children in the home, you know, that can just be a lot that do do it. You know what I mean? And they are so happy and and, you know, they meet their feeding goals.
So On this like breastfeeding journey as a whole, how would you, or is there anything you would suggest for like a partner, like how a partner can support, you know, this, their partner's breastfeeding journey? Is there anything like you would have? Yeah. Oh my gosh, if I could, if I could have people do the one thing I would love for mom.
And partner to take a prenatal breastfeeding class. I wish more people would learn about breastfeeding before it's time to breastfeed because you don't know what you don't know. And if you know how to determine if things are going well. And you know how to determine if maybe things are not going well, you know, it's just like taking, it's just like preparing for childbirth, which I think is so important.
It's the same, you know, if everyone's on the same page and everyone knows what to expect and knows where to go when things are not going well, I think so many people would be successful. Yeah, yeah, and you make a great point because I think we get so focused on preparing for like the birth of the baby.
That we just completely, like, sidestep anything to do with postpartum. And that, to me, feels like more of a vulnerable time than any time in your life. Because whether you had a vaginal birth or a c section birth, you're healing from birth. You could be exhausted, you could have other kids to take care of.
Like there should be some kind of plan in place, plan A, plan B, plan C, because you know, we could lay the best plans, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen exactly like that. So yeah, I think having like a postpartum plan in place and emphasizing on breastfeeding and healing after birth is so important.
But as far as partners go, I love one partner. Participate like in the lactation visit, because, you know, we there's some, you know, they think, oh, like, I don't need to be here. Like, this doesn't, you know, have anything to do with me. And then I have the ones like, I had 1 yesterday and the dad had had a notebook and he was like, taking notes and I'm like, oh.
I'm like, that's so cute. I'm like, but I'm going to send you a care plan. Like you don't have to take notes. Like I'm going to, I'm going to send you all this information, but I love that. Like, I love seeing those super supportive partners. Oh, wow. Or like the ones that are like, oh, babe, do you need water?
Like, let me get you a snack. Like, like, ah, I love that. And to get them involved too, because this is a part of their journey too. Yeah, exactly. It's sometimes so much, so much of it is just kind of left up to us, right? Because, you know, we're the ones that have the baby. We're the ones that feed the baby.
But it's exhausting. We're exhausted. We're so tired. Yeah. Even now. We're getting older. Oh, yeah. I feel like, you know, we're the ones that just end up, you know, like the medical stuff and the school stuff. I mean, I'm speaking, you know, from my own experience, but, you know. It's exhausting. It's hard being a mom.
It is! You make a good point because it's like, we are, it comes on to us as the ones to make the appointments, as the ones to make the decisions, because I'm, I also relate, like, my husband's like, you know, you handle all the stuff. Like, and he never actually said that, but it just kind of happened that way.
It's Yes, and it's exhausting. Like, it's exhausting to go through this checklist of everything that needs to be done. Just making those decisions is exhausting. Forget anything physical, like, just making those mental... Decisions. So yeah, I think let's get the partners on board and let's make this like a co op because that's what it is.
Exactly. Like about your personal journey, whether it was like your pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding journey, or even becoming like an IBCLC, like, is there anything that you would change? or if you had a redo, you would do differently. Oh man. I know, God, I know so much more now. Like, you know, since being a birth doula and a postpartum doula and a lactation consultant, so many, I wish I could go back, right?
And like, you know, give birth again and do postpartum again, and, you know, do different things with my daughter, you know, as far as, you know, like breastfeeding goes, I ended up exclusively pumping for her for 10 months and oh. While that was, you know, you know, a journey that, you know, I can use to help other families, like, there's so much I didn't know back then.
I will say, one of my biggest pet peeves, as far as lactation goes, is that, you know, there's different size flanges. Do you know that? Oh, yeah. I had no idea about that eight years ago, five years ago. I work with so many families who have no idea. And it's such a game changer when you get measured for flanges that actually fit you how much more comfortable it is, how much more effective and efficient pumping can be.
That is one thing that I wish I could just scream from the rooftops. Yeah, and I actually, I was using the standard that comes with like the pump that they send you, which is like 24 millimeters. And then I resized myself and I was like, or I sized myself and I was like, this is nowhere near what my nipple size is calling for.
Like, it is crazy and it changed. I was getting only like an ounce per pump. And after that, it was. Way more than that. And I was like, Oh my gosh, why is nobody talking about it in the hospital. You know, they give you, they bring in a pump for you know,
if breastfeeding is not going well. I had no idea all those years. I had no idea. And now I'm like, Wow, like, TMI, but my nipples are way smaller than that. Like, I could have got so much more milk! Yeah, and that's why I asked this question. It's not because I want you to feel like guilt for things you did in the past that you wish you could redo.
Right, yeah, yeah. The point of it is... You know, there could be somebody listening that is just beginning on this journey. And I want that, I want our experience to showcase what we kind of wish we would have done. So it could just highlight the fact that there is options, like there's not this one size fits all, like do your research and just figure out what works best for you.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's funny. It's like I talk about it sometimes or I like, you know, like, just like the breastfeeding journey with my daughter. My daughter's like, Mom, it's fine. It was so long ago. She's like, almost nine. I'm like, sorry. Okay, well, bring it up again. Like, So that just goes to show, you know what, she didn't get fed at the breast and she's fine with it.
So, I think sometimes we feel so guilty. You know what I mean? Like, we feel so guilty, especially for our feeding choices, for our parenting choices, for... You know how our births go, and so sometimes it feels so incredibly hard in the moment, or sometimes we feel so guilty in the moment, but down the road, you know what I mean, like sometimes, like, it's okay to like let that go and And process it and grieve for it, but to let it go, because look, I mean, if Riley doesn't care that she wasn't fed at the breast, then why should I?
Yeah, exactly. I mean, they're obviously happy and healthy now, because I know I went through that too, with the guilt of not doing like certain things that I've done now, but like my oldest, she's 18. So. I was really young when I had her and I didn't know a lot of things and I've done things like night and day different with, you know, my younger kids.
So I think it's important for us to just release that because I know I personally felt like anxiety and physical like tightness in my body because I just felt that overwhelming guilt of not doing what I did for my other kids or, you know, whatever, whatever the circumstance was. So, yeah, I think that's important to process our birth experience, our breastfeeding experience and just kind of learn how to be okay with it because You know, obviously they don't care, right?
And, you know, when you know better, you do better. Yes. I mean, like, we just didn't know, and we can make sure that our children know, like, these are things that, like our, you know, maybe our moms didn't talk about or didn't teach us. But now we have the power, you know what I mean, to like educate our children.
So, you know, they don't, they don't have to go through the same, you know, struggles that we did, especially, you know, our girls. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, no, I love that. So if somebody would like to connect with you, uh, how would they go about doing that? What's the best way to connect? My website, which is doulakimhunter.
com. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram. Sometimes I have people message me on there. Um, same, just doulakimhunter. All right. Well, you know, and I'll put that obviously in the show notes so that everybody can find you with ease. Um, unless you have anything more to add, I don't, I really appreciate being on your podcast today, though.
Well, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to come and chat with me. Absolutely. All right. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye. Oh my gosh,
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